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This 2024. | 00:00:00 | |
It's Election Day, I will give everybody 2 hours to vote if you guys want to go and come back. | 00:00:03 | |
OK, roll call, please, Mayor Bhaskar. | 00:00:09 | |
Councillor Dean. Councillor Fleming. Councillor Ocampo. | 00:00:15 | |
Councillor Oguin here. Councillor Partridge. Councillor Romero. Councillor Salome. | 00:00:22 | |
We do have a quorum. | 00:00:30 | |
We stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. | 00:00:33 | |
Of the United States, of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and | 00:00:39 | |
justice for all. | 00:00:44 | |
Mr. Mayor, Mr. Fleming. | 00:00:59 | |
Motion to approve the agenda as presented for the November 5th meeting. Second moved and seconded. Discussion all in favor. | 00:01:01 | |
And we apologize for not having a 6:00 meeting, but because of the election, we figured the noon meeting would be better. But we | 00:01:16 | |
had to have the meetings because we scheduled meetings every two weeks at a public forum. Anybody that's not on the agenda would | 00:01:21 | |
like to make a comment. | 00:01:26 | |
Have we done this one? Make a motion to approve the consent agenda. | 00:01:34 | |
All in favor, aye? | 00:01:39 | |
Mr. Timmons, are you going to make a comment before the agenda item? | 00:01:45 | |
It's the only opportunity I have. I'll take it you have another. | 00:01:54 | |
I just have to do a proclamation for small businesses. | 00:02:02 | |
Where is it? | 00:02:06 | |
Mr. Cynical. | 00:02:22 | |
And my talking. | 00:02:26 | |
All right, this is for small businesses. We do this every year. Whereas the government, the city of Socorro, celebrates our local | 00:02:29 | |
small businesses and the contribution that make to our local economy and community. Whereas according to the United States Small | 00:02:36 | |
Business Administration, there are 34.7 million small businesses. Small businesses represent 99.7 of firms with paid employees. | 00:02:42 | |
Small businesses are responsible for 61.1. | 00:02:48 | |
Net new jobs created since 1995 and small businesses employed 45.9%. | 00:02:55 | |
Of the employees in the private sector. | 00:03:02 | |
WHEREAS, 68 cents of every dollar spent at a small business in the US stays in the local community and every dollar spent at a | 00:03:04 | |
small business creates an additional $0.48 in local businesses. WHEREAS, 59% of US consumers aware of Small Business Saturday | 00:03:12 | |
shopped at 48 at a small independently owned retailer or restaurant Small businesses Saturday 2023. And WHEREAS Sequoia New Mexico | 00:03:19 | |
supports our local businesses that create jobs. | 00:03:27 | |
Boost our local economy and preserve our communities. Whereas advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across | 00:03:35 | |
the country have endorsed the Saturday after Thanksgiving as Small Business Saturday. Now, therefore, I rather ask for Mayor of | 00:03:42 | |
the City of Sigourney, New Mexico do hereby proclaim November 30th, 2024 as Small Business Saturday and urge the residents of our | 00:03:49 | |
community and communities across the country to support small businesses. | 00:03:56 | |
And Merchants on Small Business Saturday, celebrating its 15th year in 2024 and shop small throughout the year. | 00:04:04 | |
Hey, we have on the agenda. | 00:04:17 | |
The home occupation proposal Real LLC Mr. Tom Della Hunty Tom, you want to come up and. | 00:04:20 | |
Hello Mayor and council happy. | 00:04:36 | |
Election Day, this is Katie Cravens. She was a national she's a consultant for the cannabis business, does national seminars and | 00:04:39 | |
has lots of information for whatever the council might be looking at for policy. | 00:04:46 | |
Oh yeah, this is Katie Craven. She is. She does national seminars, but but for information for the council about anything about | 00:04:56 | |
cannabis growing in the city limits with a license. | 00:05:02 | |
This girl would certainly know. We know that Tom had originally requested this time and so we just wanted to respect it and show | 00:05:10 | |
up. We have now started working together. So I'm founder and CEO at buildmysop.com and we help operators navigate through the | 00:05:18 | |
Muddy Waters of compliance, also making sure that we are focusing on. | 00:05:25 | |
Employee safety, public safety as well as environmental safety. | 00:05:34 | |
If you brought up the taxes, did you want me to bring up? | 00:05:39 | |
Yeah, I just there was a little bit of confusion what the taxes are based how they work when you grow in the city I believe. OK, | 00:05:42 | |
great. So yeah, I'm here just to provide information. I've worked in every position from janitor to a top director at a large | 00:05:48 | |
national branded company that was a celebrity brand and I built, build my SOP out of and workforce training for the cannabis | 00:05:55 | |
industry. We just conducted A2 and 1/2 hour. | 00:06:01 | |
Notice of corrective action training for all operators. | 00:06:08 | |
And now we're going to roll out some workforce training because we simply need it. So thank you so much for your time today. And | 00:06:11 | |
is there anything I can say or any questions I can answer? But tell me, tell me a little more about the tax. | 00:06:18 | |
How does the city get that tax and when is that tax? | 00:06:25 | |
Sent from Santa Fe to the city that I don't know, I know is the business owner that I have to report that monthly or quarterly, | 00:06:31 | |
right. And so that's reported and paid by the business owner. I have to, I have to invoice my client, right? The vendor is | 00:06:37 | |
purchasing, yeah. | 00:06:43 | |
But you made a comment that the state taxes, how does the tax get returned to the city for its benefit? It's it's supposed to, | 00:06:50 | |
it's supposed to get returned. That way I can do a little more work at like and, and research exactly how much has been given | 00:06:56 | |
because that's all public record. And so I can absolutely give you a direct answer just to let you know, and you should do your | 00:07:03 | |
research too. We're getting it very infrequently and it comes in a lump sum and doesn't tell us exactly. | 00:07:09 | |
How much business is being done like every other business in town? | 00:07:16 | |
Comes very intermittently. I don't know Ruby. | 00:07:20 | |
So you got when's your last disbursement on cannabis? | 00:07:27 | |
Just sporadically. So there's no accounting for how the cannabis business is doing in Socorro on a monthly basis. So if you do | 00:07:34 | |
talk to the state, tell them about that. I'm absolutely going to do my research. And the thing about Mr. Della Gente. | 00:07:42 | |
We're not trying to stop business occurring in town where this has to do with the home permit for a cannabis building, a business | 00:07:50 | |
in a home and to have a retail business in a home. | 00:07:57 | |
Permit type setting and I think that is what the council has to wrestle with. | 00:08:06 | |
That's the problem. I believe Tom has made a pivot in his business plan and I'm sorry, I thought that that was that was had | 00:08:13 | |
already been discussed. So I apologize about that. So he's made a pivot and and purchased a facility that is zoned commercially | 00:08:18 | |
and that we are excited to talk to you guys about and what we want to do with that and really focusing on the community probably | 00:08:24 | |
be another conversation. | 00:08:30 | |
Absolutely, but but we're proud of you doing that. But as you know, Belen is actually kept how many cannabis businesses and we | 00:08:36 | |
haven't done that in this city. So if it's appropriate to have your business somewhere else, that's appropriate. That's great. So | 00:08:42 | |
if you are you're so you're rescinding your request for a home permit, yes, great. That makes it easier for us. All right, thank | 00:08:49 | |
you guys so much for your time. I appreciate you coming. Thank you. | 00:08:55 | |
Christy, that's. | 00:09:06 | |
One thing off your list of stressful things to do. | 00:09:08 | |
Yeah, but I'm just saying we want to officially say that he withdrew it. I just want to put that in the minutes because we don't | 00:09:19 | |
want to say that this was lost in the iCloud. Mr. just to be clear, so the cannabis would be grown on the property but sold at a | 00:09:26 | |
commercial location. Is that it sounds like what's going to happen, but the but the basic is. | 00:09:33 | |
That he is rescinding his application for a home permit. Yes, Sir. I just want to put that in a minute. | 00:09:40 | |
And now we have the one that everybody is here for. We have the country living residential care. And before I start on that, I'm | 00:09:48 | |
going to have Christy give me a synopsis of what happened in planning and zoning and perhaps you can just read the last part of | 00:09:55 | |
the minutes that will answer the question as to what happened there. | 00:10:02 | |
OK. | 00:10:11 | |
Hello mayor and councillors. | 00:10:13 | |
I did leave, I did e-mail you all the information I had and I also left a packet on your desks. So this was heard on October 16th. | 00:10:17 | |
I do have draft minutes drafted up for Debbie Demos Special Use Permit 1495 furniture. There was a heavy conversation in regards | 00:10:27 | |
to her business plan of putting an RV park slash mobile Home Park both. | 00:10:37 | |
Special use permit. | 00:10:46 | |
On the property. | 00:10:49 | |
I in my draft minutes, I do show that. | 00:10:53 | |
Commissioner Anaya stated that they have to vote and send it to council. Commissioner Scornia made a motion to send it to council, | 00:10:59 | |
seconded by Commissioner Saavedra. That motion was passed unanimously. Unfortunately, the planning zoning did not make a decision. | 00:11:05 | |
I I should say a recommendation because they only make a recommendation and then it gets sent to council. So they made a motion to | 00:11:12 | |
send it to council. | 00:11:18 | |
Without a recommendation. So just to summarize. | 00:11:25 | |
There was a planning and zoning meeting, yes, on the item and the item in question was an RV park at the assisted living facility, | 00:11:29 | |
the 13 acres. And after hearing pros and cons from the neighbors and the people are doing the business, they did not make any | 00:11:37 | |
recommendation to pass or fail that request. | 00:11:45 | |
Right, Commissioner Anaya stated that they have to vote to send it to council because when it is something that has a lot of. | 00:11:54 | |
Moving parts such as the special use permit. They did not make a recommendation. | 00:12:04 | |
Exactly. So they voted unanimously to send it to council, but they did not send it with a recommendation. | 00:12:12 | |
I guess they could have sent it to New York City if they wanted to, but they sent it to council. OK, so so it's basically. | 00:12:21 | |
It was basically they just didn't want to make a decision on it because of the complexities of the issue. | 00:12:30 | |
Council, Council always, No matter what their recommendation is, the council always has the last vote anyway. | 00:12:39 | |
So I will ask the people asking for this. | 00:12:46 | |
Change in what do they call this special use permit if you have some representative that wants to come up and make a statement | 00:12:52 | |
about what it is that you're asking? | 00:12:57 | |
Thank you for the opportunity. | 00:13:09 | |
First of all, can you introduce yourself and everyone? | 00:13:11 | |
I'm Debbie Dumas. I am the current owner and plan to be the. | 00:13:18 | |
And then we pull up, you pull up the microphone a little bit. | 00:13:23 | |
Of country living, residential care, this is Laura Tucker. And just to give a little background first of all, I feel. | 00:13:26 | |
Like maybe I have misrepresented what I've been telling people because my. | 00:13:35 | |
Understanding of the meeting was that it would come before planning and zoning and be approved or disapproved and from their go to | 00:13:43 | |
City Council. So I've been going to all these people sitting here telling them that this was approved at City Council at planning | 00:13:50 | |
and zoning. | 00:13:56 | |
I, I feel like right after that I got phone calls from all kinds of people saying that, well, first of all, I'll tell you what we | 00:14:04 | |
were going to do. So I had put my business up for sale thanking we were going to move and it stayed up for sale for a year. | 00:14:12 | |
There's water rights issues pending and at the end of July the contract ended and we decided to close the business and Laura had | 00:14:22 | |
come to me because she needed rental property and asked if we'd want to rent it. | 00:14:29 | |
Couple days later she called me and said what would it take to keep the facility open and I said financing, we're not making it on | 00:14:37 | |
this. So she said I have an investor that would be willing to up some money for you and to come up with some ideas which we have | 00:14:46 | |
presented before the RV park as well as. | 00:14:54 | |
Possibly something in the back. At that point we had we received, we came to the City Council meeting, we met with some of the | 00:15:03 | |
neighbors which are here today. | 00:15:08 | |
Who asked us not to put an RV park in the back of the facility? We changed our plan at this point to move the RV park up off the | 00:15:14 | |
front edge Rd. and throughout some plans for that. | 00:15:22 | |
It is not a mobile Home Park. It is. | 00:15:31 | |
It's it's an assisted RV park is what we're trying to. | 00:15:36 | |
Create 55 and over newer model RV's long term residents that can't afford to stay in the assisted living house. | 00:15:42 | |
They would at least save us that money of building and what's generated from the assisted RV park with ramps on all of them. | 00:15:53 | |
Nice neat fenced trees. | 00:16:07 | |
Driveways. | 00:16:11 | |
Grass keep the front of the facility with we would like a pond fenced around a walking path. So that's that was our intent. | 00:16:14 | |
And then so that's what brought us to City Council or to the PNL committee. And like I said, we were under I believe all everyone | 00:16:26 | |
that said they are also purchasing an assisted living in the area. It's not this one. | 00:16:34 | |
And it's not, and when I first started talking to Debbie, you know, when she said because I went out there and looked at it and | 00:16:42 | |
it's a it's something that Socorro needs. I mean, we need this kind of thing. Everything would be over 55 event four people who | 00:16:49 | |
need independent living. | 00:16:55 | |
And as they work their way into assisted living, it's country living. That's the whole premise of that. Everything would be kept | 00:17:02 | |
in the green grass with trees and homes that are spaced apart 100 feet. There's never been a mention of that. There's going to be | 00:17:09 | |
mobile homes. It's it's mentioned that the rules and the regulations right now allow there to be mobile homes there. That is not | 00:17:16 | |
the intent of this. | 00:17:23 | |
And and so just some of that that inaccurate Debbie selling, Debbie's moving. Debbie had planned, but a lot of things have | 00:17:31 | |
changed. She's having new great grandkids. | 00:17:35 | |
Things get changed and then guaranteeing that you're going to own it for 20 or 30 years that's we all are getting a little longer | 00:17:40 | |
the tooth. So that's but just the inaccurate information that's but I mean, I just clarified this hearing. | 00:17:50 | |
We do need assisted living, there's no question about it, but this hearing is specifically for a special use permit to change. | 00:18:00 | |
The areas use. | 00:18:10 | |
So I think the pluses and minuses of having assisted living and it's a good idea and what Debbie has done in the past for the home | 00:18:17 | |
has been great. I can personally say that as a physician. | 00:18:23 | |
But but this specifically for for a special use permit and it's still not really stated that it's not a tenorant. You're saying | 00:18:29 | |
they're permanent and you're also saying that these are there are these that are owned and by the people that will move in there | 00:18:39 | |
and live there and then be taking advantage of a facility somewhere else that are assisted means that they have. | 00:18:49 | |
People that come in and do stuff for them. Debbie's Debbie's license today allows her if she could double in space capacity, but | 00:18:59 | |
she doesn't have the space at the current home. But but the idea of having 55 or whatever the number is of. | 00:19:08 | |
As of what size, they're not manufactured houses. I just want to clarify for the council who actually makes the final decision as | 00:19:18 | |
to what it is specifically that's going to be there. | 00:19:25 | |
It's going to be RV's in that space. Yes, Arts wheels, motorized. | 00:19:32 | |
Storage sheds for their material storage, we didn't talk about. We haven't talked about. I'm just saying it needs to be specified. | 00:19:40 | |
Council Chairman, whenever you guys, Mr. Partridge, that would be something similar to like I've heard in the past of spot zoning | 00:19:46 | |
for. | 00:19:51 | |
The wording is special use. It's not and Christie's going like that. It's not spot zoning because the zone is rural residential | 00:20:00 | |
which allows for manufacturer and there's a manufactured mobile homes all over that area. | 00:20:07 | |
But. | 00:20:15 | |
It is not. It's not. It's called special use, which actually was applied for for the assisted living in the house. | 00:20:15 | |
Thank you. | 00:20:25 | |
Mr. Romero no, I was going to say there's some documentation that was put on the table here today that I haven't been through | 00:20:26 | |
that. And then there was other things that was sent out by the city this morning to us. And I'm just trying to clarify and be | 00:20:34 | |
specific about what is being asked so the Council has an idea. Mr. Dean, you mentioned mobile homes. You might want to tell your. | 00:20:42 | |
Relationship to this to begin with, I live in the neighborhood. Yeah, just I just want to put that in the minutes, but the special | 00:20:51 | |
use permit was for a D1 and that's what because you mentioned mobile homes. I don't I don't see it in the special permit that she | 00:20:59 | |
got from 2018. The special permit she has is for D1, which is the subdivision that rural residential. | 00:21:07 | |
Allows for mobile homes that people live in. | 00:21:15 | |
As a residence and it lasts for that. And if they want it on their 14 acres to put in half acre lots that they put, that's allowed | 00:21:21 | |
for. But this is a different situation and that's what I'm trying to say. It's a different situation. We'd really rather not have. | 00:21:29 | |
We'd rather have something that we control as far as how it looks. | 00:21:37 | |
Maintenance. | 00:21:47 | |
You know consistency right idea yes, the the facility is licensed. We could take 15 if we have the room it the whole preface of | 00:21:48 | |
this was to generate the income to do the addition right. That's from your side. But the question is, is a is a special use? | 00:21:58 | |
That people who actually bought in that area as rural residential are having to have their say as to whether they feel that | 00:22:09 | |
that's. | 00:22:15 | |
The important thing, yeah, The important thing is that it's not in and out day and day and night, you know, rent for one night. | 00:22:23 | |
It's meant to be. | 00:22:27 | |
For assisted living will provide the services nursing care, go get their medicine, go get their groceries for them. | 00:22:34 | |
Things like that. | 00:22:43 | |
So also, is there a plan yet that shows, like, what kind of lighting, what kind of impact is it going to have on the neighbors who | 00:22:45 | |
live right next door outside their window? I mean, I'm going to say, you know, just ask, is the lighting low to the ground? Is | 00:22:52 | |
there going to be a big giant spotlight? We haven't invested in that kind of detail because we don't know what we're getting. | 00:22:59 | |
Right, right. Putting the cart before the horse. | 00:23:06 | |
But. | 00:23:14 | |
Would it make a difference like the tiny homes, would that be more, you know? | 00:23:16 | |
Well, again. | 00:23:25 | |
I hate to start spreading out. I'm just specifically saying what this hearing is for and it's for. | 00:23:27 | |
Special use and I understand it says I'm just reading what you have applied for and it says RV park. | 00:23:38 | |
Now your explanation about it being a permanent setting, people coming in assisted housing, then the question would be. | 00:23:50 | |
Whether you would come again with planning and zoning after this was approved or not and then show what Councillor Dean is asking | 00:23:58 | |
for as to how would you get a permit to to put that in, whether there would be things that the neighbors then would be. | 00:24:06 | |
Well, I don't know. I'm just saying after the horse is out of the barn already, which means doing without having specifics, I | 00:24:15 | |
think it would be difficult. Whether it would sway them or not, I'm not sure. | 00:24:21 | |
Saying that, that those are the kind of the unspoken pieces of this, this puzzle. But why don't we give the opposition a chance to | 00:24:28 | |
see what they feel about? Thank you for coming. Who's going to speak for the opposition? | 00:24:36 | |
I'll try and make this very easy for you guys, who you are and where you live. My name is Mike Timmons. I moved to Socorro in 2004 | 00:24:52 | |
when I was hired at New Mexico Tech in 2005. I'm sorry, I just want to have what your standing is to be a oh, my standing is I'm | 00:24:59 | |
in the standing on Avenida Adelaida, which is next door to. | 00:25:06 | |
Yeah, so. | 00:25:14 | |
Let's just step back for a moment. I would ask the petitioners, is this what was part of the application package sent to planning | 00:25:17 | |
and zoning this image? | 00:25:21 | |
Can't clarify. Once it goes to planning and zoning and it has there's restrictions on just to say the question is no, this is not | 00:25:27 | |
part of the application. | 00:25:32 | |
You can set up here and talk if you guys want. Well, I'm making the point. This is not part of the original application. I'll move | 00:25:40 | |
on from that point so that it made a difference. Then since you brought it up, I would like to enter into the record so this is | 00:25:46 | |
captured for posterity and any future actions a petition. | 00:25:52 | |
From the neighborhood in opposition to this and full comments that I'm going to deliver today if you'll allow me the time. And I | 00:25:59 | |
don't know if I need to give this to you guys. | 00:26:04 | |
So that petition includes homeowners and occupants from Avenida Adelaide N Frontage Rd. Farrell Drive. There's quite a few names | 00:26:18 | |
on that list, all in opposition to this particular RV park at 1495 Frontage Rd. I also want to state for the record that changing | 00:26:26 | |
the time of this meeting to noon, all the appearances of trying to suppress. | 00:26:34 | |
Opposition to this project. I think you would have gotten more opposition at 6:00. I know at least three people. | 00:26:43 | |
I wanted to be here. Well, we'll, we'll let you decide when we have the meetings from now on. | 00:26:49 | |
I'm stating that for the record, Well, for the record, telling you that you can make the appointments for us. | 00:26:55 | |
My house is situated 10s of feet from my own backyard back fence directly adjacent to the Demos property. The current facility was | 00:27:01 | |
built on a special use permit to renovate a ranch house into a lake care facility. There was little protest to this zoning | 00:27:07 | |
variance because the facility specifications. | 00:27:14 | |
We're limited to the homes footprint. The assurances were made at the rest that the rest of the property would remain | 00:27:21 | |
agricultural. In fact, in testimony before planning and zoning on June 7th, 2018, Mr. Moss was asked by Christina Carnegie, who's | 00:27:28 | |
in the audience here. Is there any expansions planned for the property? | 00:27:36 | |
I Mr. Moss did respond. She would like to expand the facility to a 15 beds facility. Maybe something that this neighborhood maybe | 00:27:44 | |
actually get behind. | 00:27:50 | |
She also stated that she would like to put a resting area in the front with a pond that's clearly still in the plans. | 00:27:57 | |
And now we know. | 00:28:05 | |
Let's see. And then the last bit of testimony provided in that particular meeting, there was promises made that the backfield | 00:28:08 | |
would remain remain agricultural. So that was what was presented in 2018. | 00:28:15 | |
In 2020, Mr. Moss returned to PNZ requesting another special use permit to develop a mobile RV park on the back lot of the | 00:28:23 | |
property within feet of my property. That application was withdrawn as they were informed by the traffic study of the frontage Rd. | 00:28:30 | |
would likely be required. The project seemed to be self showed at that point. | 00:28:38 | |
So I did attend the October, the latest, October 16th PNZ meeting to express my opposition to the development. The last fix of the | 00:28:45 | |
development project have changed. The mobile RV park remains a central element of the proposed project. PNZ inexplicably approved | 00:28:53 | |
the proposed development despite multiple protesters attending. Only three of the five Commission members were president. I spoke | 00:29:00 | |
to Chairman Anaya. He told me. | 00:29:08 | |
From the votes, I'm not sure the record is correct. I do not have minutes from that meeting to confirm, but I would be confirming | 00:29:16 | |
that there was a quorum attained, certified letters went to all the homeowners as required, and votes were recorded accurately. | 00:29:22 | |
Now you, the council, are considering a recommendation. What I thought was a recommendation from PNC. I'm just hearing now that | 00:29:28 | |
also that it was just. | 00:29:34 | |
A pass the buck exercise. I will remind the Council that the special use permit is required for specific land use. | 00:29:41 | |
That is not permitted by right within the zone. Special use permits are required by ordinance to meet following conditions under | 00:29:50 | |
chapter 250, Article 5, section 255.5. In this section, the city has certain requirements that must be followed. Special use | 00:29:59 | |
permits shall not be granted in such cases where they were adversely affected, joining property values or endanger public safety. | 00:30:08 | |
Special use permits shall not be granted in such cases. | 00:30:17 | |
Where the use is or will become detrimental to the character of the zone wherein it it is located. | 00:30:21 | |
With any special use submission, the applicant is required to document the following. There should be a comprehensive statement | 00:30:28 | |
including each application included with each application, detailing the reason for the project, purpose and use of the property, | 00:30:34 | |
all the improvements to be made, a site plan that has to include location of existing structures including dimensions, setbacks, | 00:30:40 | |
all that. | 00:30:47 | |
Location of treatment of open spaces, landscaping, Plan a schedule, lighting, signage. | 00:30:54 | |
A drainage plan, site plan, landscaping plan, a grading plan shall be required for all special use developments. | 00:31:01 | |
None of this information is included in the special use application. I will add that there is no information regarding power | 00:31:09 | |
upgrades required, sewer enhancements, needed traffic studies, or any details needed to evaluate the merits of this proposal. | 00:31:15 | |
Lastly, the Sydney ordinance also stipulate that special uses shall not be considered a zoning district change. So my question is | 00:31:22 | |
pretty simple. | 00:31:28 | |
For the council given the restrictions stipulated and required by city ordinance. | 00:31:35 | |
How can a special use permit be used to permanently change the zoning for neighborhood? This application will permanently change | 00:31:40 | |
the zoning conditions in this part of this city and will absolutely impact the property values of adjacent homeowners. | 00:31:47 | |
So all future homeowners will have to deal with whatever this commercial operation ends up being. | 00:31:56 | |
The applicants have not met the minimum requirements of a special use permit application. They have not requested a renewal | 00:32:03 | |
special use permit for the current facility, which I understand is required to be renewed on A5 year basis or so. | 00:32:09 | |
That's consistent with the temporary nature of the zoning statuses. This commercial venture with non Socorro investors will have a | 00:32:18 | |
singular purpose and this is hitting me acutely. It is to extract every cent of value out of that property and all the adjacent | 00:32:24 | |
properties to it. | 00:32:30 | |
And that's to my personal to my knowledge, no formal traffic study has been completed or supplied with the application. | 00:32:39 | |
Regrettably, I understand our our neighbors are moving to Texas. They will not be here to manage this property. | 00:32:48 | |
So I stand in opposition to the special use application. I'm accompanied by others in our neighborhood, some of these, everyone | 00:32:57 | |
here. If you want to raise your hand and indicate your opposition, you're welcome to do so for the council. So I, I believe I've | 00:33:04 | |
provided this council with all the information needed to just deny the special use permit application. This is a test of your | 00:33:10 | |
leadership and I know it's not a welcome one. | 00:33:17 | |
Do you support the people who are living here in Socorro? | 00:33:24 | |
Were another family that doesn't live in Socorro has no plans to reside in Socorro. My whole world is ranked here. I've raised my | 00:33:28 | |
two kids here. This is the only home they have known and I will continue to fight this proposed development with every legal means | 00:33:36 | |
available to me. I can only trust that this council will just adhere to the ordinance they have. Thank you. | 00:33:43 | |
You won't understand for any questioning at all. | 00:33:53 | |
Since you took the time to come at noon, yeah. | 00:33:57 | |
You know, 6:00 might have been awkward with the election going on and that's the reason we changed the 12. But I guess Christy, | 00:34:00 | |
his comment about a quorum, I just want to get the cities liability out of this before we get sued. Was there a quorum? | 00:34:08 | |
And did Mr. Anaya abstain? | 00:34:17 | |
And. | 00:34:20 | |
Well, I'm hearsay, hearsay. I'm just saying what's in the minutes and and what's the other part which? | 00:34:23 | |
And you, you, you, you did communicate to all the neighbors, all your, all your intent. | 00:34:31 | |
Excuse me, I'm just trying to clarify if you'd give me a chance. Listen, I apologize. Go ahead. Clarify the city's role in having | 00:34:41 | |
some negligence if that's the case. Yes, Sir. So. So all those things that he mentioned. | 00:34:49 | |
Right, OK. | 00:35:04 | |
OK, well just just to make sure we document that and make sure that you get those minutes signed by the by the Chairman. Doctor | 00:35:09 | |
Johnson, let me finish and I will be happy to listen to your hand. | 00:35:14 | |
OK. | 00:35:23 | |
Yes, Miss George. | 00:35:24 | |
This was coming about. | 00:35:27 | |
And just across the Florida lateral from? | 00:35:37 | |
For this development, so, and I think I mean it's just a recommendation, but I think and perhaps in rural residential zoning 100 | 00:35:44 | |
feet of distance to notify a a significant land owner of a of a peak of a zoning change or a special use permit is a little | 00:35:53 | |
narrow. I think I still fall within the 100 feet. I'm not going to change the ordinance here. | 00:36:03 | |
We can do that another time, but we appreciate your comment and make sure that we're sure. Well, just she's made a comment and | 00:36:13 | |
obviously we did not include her with what the county said and we'll make sure it's noted and but we didn't, you know, there's a | 00:36:19 | |
percentage. But anyway, Mr. Partridge, you have a question. No more of a comment. No, just comment to to Mr. Romero. That sounds | 00:36:25 | |
like the entire planning and zoning Epstein is all I was saying is that they just passed it to us. I thought that they were a | 00:36:31 | |
buffer. | 00:36:37 | |
They should know these ordinances and what is allowable in these areas and make it render a decision. I get it's going to come to | 00:36:44 | |
us either way. It sounds like there was no decision at all and they just pushed it to us. That's all I was saying. I apologize. I | 00:36:50 | |
mean administratively and I don't have a vote and it appears we may need further time to discuss this, but administratively if you | 00:36:56 | |
have. | 00:37:02 | |
A special use permit. | 00:37:09 | |
Asked for and the neighbors. | 00:37:13 | |
Present a petition that they feel is not appropriate for their area. This a certain zone. You have to listen to the petition. I | 00:37:14 | |
mean you have to look and see what the neighbors are saying about what they bought and what is being changed, even as nebulous as | 00:37:23 | |
it is. So logically, if you go by just looking at. | 00:37:31 | |
The role of planning and zoning and and getting. | 00:37:40 | |
The people who owned houses already there and if this was there before they bought the house, that would be a different story. But | 00:37:45 | |
this is a, this is a special use and that's something that I think the council needs to look at. I, I appreciate people coming to | 00:37:52 | |
town whether they live here or not. I know, I know, I don't like to make that kind of a statement that people that are here should | 00:37:59 | |
be treated differently than the people that are coming in and investing in our community. | 00:38:05 | |
I'm I certainly appreciate people looking at our community to invest in. | 00:38:13 | |
And and whether you're moving away or not is to get the best value for the property that you've paid for. But again. | 00:38:17 | |
I leave it up to the council if they want to make a decision today. Mr. Fleming or or we can ask her legal because there appears | 00:38:25 | |
to be a lot of Britons about legal matters that coming to the City Council being sued. Maybe we should look at it a little more | 00:38:33 | |
specifically. Mr. Mayor. First of all, Christy, how many mailings went out that were presented to you by the county? | 00:38:40 | |
I have 9 listings, 99. I wonder why on this petition that we were just given we have 21. | 00:38:57 | |
I don't know. That didn't come through P&Z. So was this not presented to PNC? No, I know, but. | 00:39:07 | |
This is my family, but we have to authenticate all these. I think that's why we may have to look at this. We'll kick the can down | 00:39:16 | |
the road, but we'll have to look at this little closer. But Miss Dean, I was just curious about the lodgers tax. I don't I don't | 00:39:24 | |
remember the the what the rules are on that we received largest tax from these RV's or because they're long term. | 00:39:32 | |
If they will reside in one place for more than a month, there's no logic. | 00:39:40 | |
You want to tax them also. | 00:39:46 | |
Still again. | 00:39:51 | |
Based on all the conversations that I have with Mr. Mr. Demas, Mr. Timmons and, and going through and looking at and refreshing | 00:39:54 | |
myself on on coding and zones and ordinances and all that. I think it brings to light some stuff that I think the council as a | 00:40:01 | |
whole used to needs to address. As far as the process throughout the discussions I was talking about. I know there's a checklist, | 00:40:08 | |
I've seen checklist before on when they come to City Council and they, they, there's a list of stuff that needs to be. | 00:40:15 | |
And I was trying to find it, come find it. And the whole time I was kind of right in front of my eyes with Mr. Delaney's | 00:40:23 | |
application and all those questions are asked. | 00:40:28 | |
Will any sign on property related to the business have over what however many feed? Is your business activity related to the | 00:40:36 | |
healthcare physical? Will there be external outside evidence of the business activities such as commercial vehicle storage, noise, | 00:40:42 | |
dust, odors, noxious fumes and so on. And I think that I mean this this is for the home occupation permit, but I think this a | 00:40:48 | |
checklist like this would have been good. | 00:40:54 | |
For us as a council to to be able to cross reference with the testimonies from from the petitioners and and the people in | 00:41:01 | |
opposition because there are a lot of good points that are being made or a lot of good questions that that that are asked on these | 00:41:10 | |
applications that the petitioner can either approve or disprove also to in discussion with Mr. and Missus Demos and. | 00:41:18 | |
The concern I've had throughout my time as a council is, excuse me, when we get these, what does it do for the future? And, and I | 00:41:27 | |
think my biggest concern with something like this is, I mean, I have no doubt that Mister and Mrs. Demos would have a beautiful | 00:41:33 | |
facility and they would do everything that they would say. | 00:41:39 | |
But what concerns me is that if we were to approve a special use for this rural residential area. | 00:41:46 | |
I feel that. For example, my sister has a house on Duggan Plain and she has property. I mean, who's to say if she wants to make | 00:41:54 | |
some extra cash or entice the value of her land by putting an RV park there? She comes to the counselor planning and zoning and | 00:42:00 | |
says the same thing. You know, it's going to be nice. We're going to, we're going to, it's going to be all this other sea moves | 00:42:06 | |
and another person comes in and we have no guarantee that that's going to be fulfilled. | 00:42:12 | |
I mean, it's a mobile home. I mean, it's a mobile Home Park, not an RV park. But I mean, I wasn't obviously here when it happened, | 00:42:19 | |
but Shady Nook, for example. | 00:42:23 | |
When that was approved or, or allowed to happen, how did that go down? And, and now you look, they could have said the same thing | 00:42:27 | |
too. This is going to be, we're going to put trees, it's going to be a nice, we're going to take care of it and so on and so | 00:42:35 | |
forth. Ownership hands or the ownership changes hands and in my opinion, it's detrimental to the neighborhood. | 00:42:42 | |
And for everybody else that has their properties in rural residential, what's that? What signal does that stand to them? I mean | 00:42:52 | |
all the whole farm can have the opportunity now. On what grounds would we have? | 00:42:57 | |
To deny them based on if they were to come and present a same application and the same arguments that this is that's being | 00:43:03 | |
presented today, we really wouldn't have any grounds in my opinion to denial. So I firmly agree that we have a need and Mr. Mrs. | 00:43:10 | |
Demas are stepping up to the plate to try to, to try to to address that need and it's appreciated. But I think that us as a | 00:43:17 | |
council, in my opinion. | 00:43:23 | |
Need to be a little bit more strategic on how. | 00:43:31 | |
And and and addressing all the issues that could come about on on the application and then we can go from there. | 00:44:04 | |
So that's. | 00:44:13 | |
That that's, that's where, that's that's where I stand on this much. | 00:44:15 | |
Are there? | 00:44:23 | |
I'm Debbie Demos with Country Living. Are there any who holds people to the ordinances like shady whatever, wagon wheel, Willis | 00:44:25 | |
trailer park, you know, I know it's going to look better than any of that, but just asking, are there city ordinances or who who? | 00:44:35 | |
Takes care of that stuff. | 00:44:47 | |
We lose responsibility. We have. I do. Is Chris here? | 00:44:49 | |
There's my zoning, my code enforcement, and he's got his hands full. Mr. Mayor, just on that, sorry. So, and I don't have the | 00:44:55 | |
exact words, but from what I read on there that if a specially used permit is approved, it it can be revoked if, and I don't know | 00:45:01 | |
the exact wording on it, but it can be revoked if the terms and conditions, some of the terms and conditions aren't being met at | 00:45:07 | |
that time. | 00:45:13 | |
That is correct. | 00:45:21 | |
Well, you know the. | 00:45:24 | |
Again, there's checklists and there's checklists and there's plans that you're going to show, but it all boils down to it being a | 00:45:27 | |
special use permit and the special use permit again administratively and also is the one who votes. | 00:45:37 | |
Is something that the neighbors really have, in my opinion, have a four or 50% effect on whether you have a checklist that you did | 00:45:48 | |
everything there. The neighbors feel that they're not being treated properly by the special use permit. And so same thing with the | 00:45:55 | |
home business. If somebody wants to put a home business next door to somebody's house and the neighbors say, you know, this is not | 00:46:03 | |
going to work out, I think we have to listen to the people who have. | 00:46:10 | |
Actually bought and paid money for real estate there. I appreciate that and I agree with you. But also we should have been given | 00:46:17 | |
the list so we could present that and we could do our due diligence, which we thought we were doing. | 00:46:25 | |
If we develop a list for you and you give a nicer picture of this. | 00:46:34 | |
Will that be something that this petition and these the people are going to say, yeah, that's great. I want 50 RV's right next. So | 00:46:42 | |
so that that's what I'm getting with just boil it down to the basics is the question of neighbors saying that we don't want this | 00:46:48 | |
in our rural. | 00:46:55 | |
My my name is Chet de Maison. | 00:47:03 | |
Part owner of this thing, but we in Mr. Timmons right? We we did visit with him. We went to their house and had dinner on | 00:47:05 | |
previously and this is I think is in 20/20/20. I don't remember the actual date but he he did not want it in the back. So we said | 00:47:12 | |
okay, what if we move it to the front? | 00:47:20 | |
He didn't have a problem with that. | 00:47:28 | |
That's why we. | 00:47:31 | |
Are coming to them with this right now beautiful but you know I'm just saying that this is not going to be. | 00:47:33 | |
With them seeing all this and trying to present it to them again, personally I think we should hear but at this point it doesn't | 00:47:40 | |
appear that the whole picture is together like. | 00:47:45 | |
Damien, we've got somebody sitting here on the phone. | 00:47:53 | |
Have you got a question? Yes, Mr. Mayor, this is Daniel Compo. I have a question. I'm not sure if they got answered earlier. We | 00:47:57 | |
lost electricity again and my phone got dropped but got back on. But I understand that there is some type of verbiage where | 00:48:05 | |
special use permits have to be reviewed or else applied for again every five years. And maybe not in this exact situation, but | 00:48:12 | |
this, so I understand it more, so I'm not ignorant towards it. | 00:48:19 | |
Every five years that a. | 00:48:27 | |
Especially use permit as well. Then is it the council or the PNZ or, or who is it that actually sees it that they're still doing | 00:48:29 | |
business as they as they put in for the special. That way all sides understand and know that that it that they're still following | 00:48:38 | |
what they what they applied for in the 1st place. Was that answered before? I'm just not sure. | 00:48:47 | |
Not not directly, but I think it's up to the planning and zoning. | 00:48:56 | |
Administrator and the city administrator and the mayor to make sure that if we have these coming up every five years that that we | 00:49:01 | |
could review what they said they were going to do and what they are actually doing. But again, that's farther down the road than | 00:49:07 | |
somebody investing hundreds of thousands of dollars and doing something and then it's falling apart. And then us telling them, | 00:49:12 | |
well, they got to clean it up or do something. You know, that that's that's, that's a decision that probably should never have | 00:49:18 | |
been made. | 00:49:24 | |
But again. | 00:49:29 | |
It's up to the council as to how they decide what the specifics are, as to what satisfies them to make this into a special use and | 00:49:30 | |
we can give them these check boxes, We can save review this every five years. The question is, in my opinion, the way the the | 00:49:37 | |
petition is and the people that are here, that feeling is not going to change. And I just don't know whether that's acceptable to | 00:49:44 | |
them or not. But we can, we can certainly. | 00:49:50 | |
Postpone this hearing give you a chance to have further discussions with them. | 00:49:58 | |
And not make a decision or turn it down or turn it up. That's something up to the council. Mr. Mayor, on, on that note, it is in | 00:50:04 | |
there that says that if we do vote on this today and we do deny it, they can't come back for another six months. So we can | 00:50:11 | |
postpone it whatever the council would like. But again, I just, I'm just saying the things that are on the table, that there's no | 00:50:17 | |
hidden agenda. It's just the way things are. And I, I, are you taking my picture? | 00:50:23 | |
We can make that available to you while you're at it, but you're welcome to come closer if you want to look better that way. | 00:50:31 | |
But go ahead. | 00:50:37 | |
We aren't moving the goal posts on this application. According to our bylaws, postponement has to be taken up at the next City | 00:50:41 | |
Council meeting. | 00:50:46 | |
Change between now and 2nd. Withdrawing that would be the easiest thing to do and not have that six month period. Mr. Mayor, is | 00:50:53 | |
it? Is it? Is it in our authority to send it back to PNC and then have them do a formal vote on recommending or denying? | 00:51:02 | |
Well, don't bring that. | 00:51:18 | |
We have a you're saying we don't have a constituted community right now. I don't think you need to say anything else. Yeah, that's | 00:51:20 | |
a different thing. But again, it could be you could withdraw the application and that would not apply for six months. If you would | 00:51:26 | |
rule the application and bring it back up again, we could. | 00:51:32 | |
Postpone it for another meeting in two weeks, But we have that by bylaw that we can't, we can't just postpone it forever. | 00:51:39 | |
I just want to make sure the condition. | 00:51:47 | |
Achievements if you choose the post Office for two years. | 00:51:50 | |
Mr. Mayor, just to answer your question, they would not so, but if it's sent back to P&Z, the the nature of the application can be | 00:51:55 | |
changed. | 00:51:59 | |
But again. | 00:52:06 | |
It would behoove us to allow them to present further information, not go ahead and invest any more money because we're not saying | 00:52:11 | |
that you should or shouldn't, is to recommend that you withdraw it and go back to the Planning board and go back to the planning | 00:52:19 | |
and zoning. That would be my advice. If we do postpone it, we have two weeks. | 00:52:28 | |
To wrestle with this if you'd like. | 00:52:38 | |
Or you can vote on it now instrument. Sorry. And there was also discussion about, you know, they were saying that meetings were | 00:52:40 | |
being held with the neighbors and all that other stuff. In my opinion, I think that the planning and zoning meetings should be the | 00:52:45 | |
time or that way everything is on record and there's no he said this, they said that and they're meeting behind their backs and | 00:52:51 | |
they're spreading the rumors and everything else like that as well. But I think that that's the perfect opportunity where there's | 00:52:56 | |
no I mean you have. | 00:53:01 | |
You have free will to. | 00:53:07 | |
Present both arguments for and against and everything is on record. So when we do. | 00:53:09 | |
I understand that, but I'm yes, but then so that way I'm that way the public knows too. So that way whenever it's the people that | 00:53:16 | |
weren't there, they know that when we get when we get our when we get the application from the planning and zoning, we have an | 00:53:21 | |
accurate description of the comments that were made and everything the arguments that were made within the minutes of the | 00:53:26 | |
application from the planning and zoning. | 00:53:31 | |
We do have that new Michael in our packet. | 00:53:37 | |
This Doctor Johnson. | 00:53:43 | |
Just one second. Just. | 00:53:49 | |
Hi, hello to the council and I appreciate you hearing us out. I just wanted to make the council aware that in the in the documents | 00:53:57 | |
that I got when I went to see Christy that this is not simply an RV park. There are there are additional paper, there's additional | 00:54:06 | |
paperwork that says as a tentative plan they would they might want to put some. | 00:54:14 | |
Some tiny houses or assisted living housing now in the back residential area and that is a is a tentative plan and I believe the | 00:54:23 | |
discussion was that that was looking at about 5 years out to create this little community and I, I responded in the PNC meeting | 00:54:32 | |
that. | 00:54:40 | |
For them and and it is my understanding from attending that meeting that. | 00:54:49 | |
That three out of four of the PNC members said that they approved it. That was my understanding, but. | 00:54:54 | |
If the minutes don't reflect that, I don't know where the discrepancy is, but. | 00:55:04 | |
Pardon the discrepancy with you because the minutes say they did not make any decision. | 00:55:09 | |
But I have my objection is that this proposal had something that was tentative five years, potentially five years down the road. | 00:55:16 | |
And I said. | 00:55:21 | |
These need to be separated out and I just want you all to be aware that that is part of what was on the what was on the table. I | 00:55:27 | |
didn't know if you listened to the whole meeting by the start of the meeting by specifying what this meeting and this hearing was | 00:55:33 | |
about, I did. | 00:55:38 | |
But I, I felt that that was something that was important for me to say. And it's important for me to tell you that if there are | 00:55:45 | |
tiny houses out there and they're within the code, they can be built. That's housing. | 00:55:51 | |
No matter whether they're tiny or large or mansions, they're housing and they can be built in that rural residential setting. It's | 00:55:58 | |
just you can't have this in the rural residential sitting in my opinion. | 00:56:04 | |
Without approval of Yeah, without the City Council. But tiny homes. | 00:56:13 | |
And you're whatever tiny home means within as a residence can be done. I mean that's that's not against the zoning over there. It | 00:56:19 | |
it can be done. But I but as a question I asked several years ago for my family's property. Mike Chosen told me that you can a | 00:56:27 | |
piece of land can be subdivided. | 00:56:35 | |
Once every year and unless. Unless. | 00:56:44 | |
You know, these are going to be whatever. I mean, we're talking about tiny homes, but if they're going to be individually owned, | 00:56:49 | |
then that is a sub that falls under the subdivision. | 00:56:55 | |
Have to be approved by City Council. You can subsidized up to. | 00:57:03 | |
Christine 4. | 00:57:09 | |
I can't. I can't give you specifically, but you can on your own. Every year you can subdivide X number by doing a subdivision. | 00:57:12 | |
Then you didn't fall under the subdivision requirements 11 division, so you can do that. | 00:57:22 | |
Topic but. | 00:57:30 | |
The concept of them putting in tiny homes or mansions or whatever that's. | 00:57:32 | |
Part of the zoning there, that's just, you know, just the logic. I think we're getting away. I mean, again, I think this is a | 00:57:37 | |
specific special use. The neighbors are against it, unfortunately to me. | 00:57:45 | |
That's a very important part, Debbie. I think we can all agree on that. | 00:57:53 | |
Select. | 00:57:58 | |
Sorry again, this is Debbie Demoss with Country Living and we just want to resend her application at this point. | 00:58:01 | |
We'll just, we'll just do something else. The home is back there. And then they don't have a choice because that's yeah, according | 00:58:09 | |
to a subdivision laws. | 00:58:16 | |
You don't have to qualify. You're resenting the application. Yes. Thank you. Sorry about all the time. No, I mean, that's what we | 00:58:24 | |
have. Commissioner Duggan, is that your party? Is that part of your county? | 00:58:31 | |
Come on down. Did you put any improvements on that road for us? | 00:58:40 | |
You've got two months with me. But Mr. Mayor, Mr. Monet, I'm Glenn Duggan's. I live in limits are for the record, I am a current | 00:58:46 | |
commissioner. I do not represent the Commission in this meeting. I'm a neighbor to demuss. I've known these people. | 00:58:57 | |
I don't want to tell you how many years, but look. | 00:59:08 | |
They're the cleanest, best neighbors I've ever had and if they wanted to do this next to me? | 00:59:13 | |
Why not? And you know what? If I want to control your land? Well, maybe I should have bought it. And what about? | 00:59:18 | |
Neighbors. | 00:59:27 | |
That don't keep their yards up, that are depreciating their land. There's some of the cleanest stuff around it, and I wanna touch | 00:59:29 | |
on that agriculture stuff a little. | 00:59:33 | |
As the city or as development comes around a farm. | 00:59:40 | |
You can love your farm all you want. | 00:59:46 | |
But if you're there, if you have to turn the profit, you can't do it with neighbors all around you because they're going to turn | 00:59:49 | |
you in. The water is going to leak. The tractor is too loud. One, I know, I live your, your wife's, your sisters where they live. | 00:59:58 | |
That's where I grew up. I know I grew up in that neighborhood, you know? | 01:00:07 | |
And I'm tired of the ghetto. | 01:00:19 | |
I really am. I remember when Ford, when General Motors, when everybody was here, John Deere. I know things change, but we need | 01:00:23 | |
good investment. And this looks to me like whether they do the tiny house or whatever, you couldn't ask for better people. And | 01:00:32 | |
Hallelujah that corporations, corporate money comes to Socorro. | 01:00:41 | |
Open my pocket. What the hell? | 01:00:50 | |
What's the matter with that? I mean, we live in poverty. We have an aging community. This is needed. And the beautiful thing of a | 01:00:53 | |
government. I've learned what they give is they can take it. And if you need to adjust something, my goodness, you have a very | 01:01:02 | |
good opportunity here to help the people of Socorro to remain in Socorro and to not go to the nursing home. | 01:01:12 | |
I mean that I don't know. There's no, there's no question that that chili farm is the prettiest chili farm I have ever seen. | 01:01:22 | |
I know I. | 01:01:31 | |
This has to do with ordinances and a city and it has to do with what the neighbors are feeling. And if there is a dirty yard, the | 01:01:37 | |
people who move there bought it next to that dirty yard, you know, and we have zoning ordinances for that. But this is a special | 01:01:47 | |
use and, and this needs to be here in Socorro, but probably not there. But we definitely need assistance. | 01:01:56 | |
And what Debbie did with that farmhouse for people, it was it was a godsend for the family and for the people that were there that | 01:02:05 | |
you took care of. | 01:02:10 | |
If the firm continues through the in the coming years and we nobody ever knows, I hope it does. I hate to see farmland covered up | 01:02:16 | |
but people move in. I I understand you have your legal stuff to go through but I came here to vouch and without a doubt. | 01:02:26 | |
And and and it's needed. | 01:02:37 | |
And I may not like what my neighbors do. Donald, how long have you known Debbie? | 01:02:42 | |
OK, well, see, we got, we got a guy right there that knows we're longer than that. Well, we all know each other, but I that's all | 01:02:51 | |
I can we do know that we're here. It's just and it by the way, if you need some help, let me know. | 01:02:59 | |
I mean the county Commission, because it's in the city, you're in the, we're in the county, we need to eat some of your that you | 01:03:07 | |
guys are putting in the bank, which should be used for the public. | 01:03:12 | |
And you know what? And that's my argument. You better spent within the community advances. | 01:03:21 | |
But really if I can help with public session anymore? | 01:03:31 | |
Thank you, Mr. Douglas. Mr. Fleming. | 01:03:39 | |
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So as of right now, I'm pointing up clarification. The application has been rescinded by the presenters, is | 01:03:45 | |
that correct? | 01:03:51 | |
That is correct. We will go alternate route. | 01:03:58 | |
Mr. Parkman, just offer I I think I echo what Mr. Elgin said and Councillor Augean and Mayor, we do need housing for the elderly, | 01:04:03 | |
the tough position to be in as a counselor. | 01:04:10 | |
I just based upon the application now that it's rescinded, it sounds like even with the notes given, Mr. Timmons, maybe have you | 01:04:19 | |
provided a blueprint for you to do it a different route that is more applicable than the area that the neighbors would be more | 01:04:24 | |
satisfied with? | 01:04:28 | |
I don't think they'll be more satisfied, but maybe it'll fall within the legal boundaries and then it won't mind. That's my | 01:04:34 | |
opinion. | 01:04:38 | |
But maybe it'll fall within the parameters of what's allowable without a special use, and maybe that'll work better for the | 01:04:43 | |
circumstances. | 01:04:47 | |
And obviously, Mr. Romero chatting with all the appeasement that, you know, you were trying to do and things that the neighbors | 01:04:53 | |
were trying to do to take care of their property, there was just a lot of different. | 01:05:01 | |
Stories and information misinformation, misinformation and bad that things are that way if they would invited us to their meeting, | 01:05:10 | |
we could have probably not had a problem in an issue. That's why we come up with this alternate site plan because of but you hate | 01:05:18 | |
to run out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. | 01:05:26 | |
To get. | 01:05:35 | |
Maybe on a, on a, on a permit that is, you know, so now we know what we need to do period. | 01:05:37 | |
Do you have the investors with you, One of them? | 01:05:48 | |
And two, there's, there's three of us. I think that's great. I mean, I, you know, I, I don't have anything against time. Yeah, of | 01:05:53 | |
course, Yeah, of course. And helping the town and I just think. | 01:06:01 | |
Well, I think we appreciate you. Everybody says we are moving away. Well, we are going to move away, but we're still involved in | 01:06:09 | |
this business. So we're not going anywhere. | 01:06:15 | |
Appreciate you. Our house is still here. We're still gonna be taxes here. It's just it's just a different location of. | 01:06:21 | |
Well, thank, thank you and thank you. | 01:06:30 | |
We're doing are we doing a bit award, let's do it again. I make a motion, we approve a bit of word IFB 092424 the Evergreen water | 01:06:42 | |
wastewater collection system expansion. | 01:06:49 | |
So moved and seconded, and as I don't know people at the end of the line, we're going to do the whole system. We got money for it | 01:06:58 | |
and good job with Donald and Ruby and Paul and Lloyd. | 01:07:04 | |
All so all in favor, aye? | 01:07:12 | |
Motion We approve the letter of award for Monsoner's Ave. | 01:07:19 | |
Second moved and seconded. There's another that we had to get extra money for and I think we'll get it past the Interstate | 01:07:23 | |
overpass. Will we or no? | 01:07:27 | |
It's going to be close, Mister man, just to the club maybe. All in favor, aye. Hazard, Mr. again, Motion. We approve the OSHA | 01:07:32 | |
policies and procedures of the Hazard communications and the blood borne Pathogen plan. | 01:07:40 | |
Moved and seconded discussion. All in favor Aye, new business. | 01:07:50 | |
Whole business Mr. Mayor would like to just thank you and your staff and Lloyd for getting the like that whether is that game that | 01:07:56 | |
played ******** Bloomberg I know you think that were ******** boards all done at the city. I didn't even realize they were done I | 01:08:02 | |
had checked on the progress and. | 01:08:09 | |
AD came up and was really happy that it was done. So thanks for the hard work and getting that done. And Lloyd said there's a | 01:08:15 | |
little bit more to do on it just to make it a little nicer. I appreciate that. Thank you. | 01:08:21 | |
On the mayors report, I just want to give you an update on the, I'm sorry, who said Mr. Romero. And also we need to thank whoever | 01:08:28 | |
was in charge for the concrete for that. That was huge from beginning to end. So Senior Center. | 01:08:36 | |
Michael, are you still here? | 01:08:48 | |
Good, good job. No, you guys are great. | 01:08:53 | |
I'm glad you can make the noon meetings though buddy. | 01:08:59 | |
You guys take the two hours to vote later on, OK. | 01:09:03 | |
Sakura Municipal Electric Update I want to give you some information #1 the Public Regulatory Commission slapped the co-ops, not | 01:09:08 | |
just the hand, they slapped some other stuff. And they told the Co-op that they were incompetent, they were frivolous and wasting | 01:09:15 | |
the owner's money and legal issues that were not able to be accomplished. Taking to the Supreme Court and all that. And they're | 01:09:22 | |
going to and they're going to. | 01:09:30 | |
Make sure that they do not charge the consumers $1,000,000 penalty that they're supposed to pay, but they're still considering the | 01:09:38 | |
penalty #2 we have gotten. | 01:09:43 | |
Almost 70%. | 01:09:52 | |
Of our solar and battery storage, paid for by a grant. | 01:09:54 | |
5 megabytes, 5 MW solar facility with A10 MW battery storage. | 01:10:01 | |
We're now looking to put together a resolution for the council, Peter Gonzalez additional job duties as police Lieutenant and | 01:10:11 | |
Gilberto Chavez landfill termination. | 01:10:18 | |
Esther. | 01:10:26 | |
Of the personnel changes as well. | 01:10:29 | |
Again, we've the 2nd and all in favor, aye. We have business registration. We have March Mexican and more transient vendor. You | 01:10:32 | |
know, we've had transient vendors that have, I had one guys, they were coming from California. They set up on Smith's. I know you | 01:10:39 | |
mentioned that to me. There were, there's actually they're set up somewhere else and I happen to catch them on Smith's. They had a | 01:10:46 | |
whole, they had a whole lights and generator and a cooking and we had them moved off. | 01:10:54 | |
Sakura Wellness and Rehabilitation, David Gertz. And that's a skilled nursing facility. | 01:11:01 | |
Neuralta Technology. Mustang, OK Electrical contractor. | 01:11:09 | |
Who approved the business registrations? | 01:11:17 | |
Moved and seconded. All in favor, Aye. And the next meeting, if we have one, will be at 6:00. | 01:11:21 | |
November 19th I will send a personal invitation to Doctor Timmons to come because I think he likes the evening meetings. | 01:11:30 | |
OK, that's it turned. See you guys later. | 01:11:40 |
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Proclamation - Small Buisness Saturday | General Document |
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This 2024. | 00:00:00 | |
It's Election Day, I will give everybody 2 hours to vote if you guys want to go and come back. | 00:00:03 | |
OK, roll call, please, Mayor Bhaskar. | 00:00:09 | |
Councillor Dean. Councillor Fleming. Councillor Ocampo. | 00:00:15 | |
Councillor Oguin here. Councillor Partridge. Councillor Romero. Councillor Salome. | 00:00:22 | |
We do have a quorum. | 00:00:30 | |
We stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. | 00:00:33 | |
Of the United States, of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and | 00:00:39 | |
justice for all. | 00:00:44 | |
Mr. Mayor, Mr. Fleming. | 00:00:59 | |
Motion to approve the agenda as presented for the November 5th meeting. Second moved and seconded. Discussion all in favor. | 00:01:01 | |
And we apologize for not having a 6:00 meeting, but because of the election, we figured the noon meeting would be better. But we | 00:01:16 | |
had to have the meetings because we scheduled meetings every two weeks at a public forum. Anybody that's not on the agenda would | 00:01:21 | |
like to make a comment. | 00:01:26 | |
Have we done this one? Make a motion to approve the consent agenda. | 00:01:34 | |
All in favor, aye? | 00:01:39 | |
Mr. Timmons, are you going to make a comment before the agenda item? | 00:01:45 | |
It's the only opportunity I have. I'll take it you have another. | 00:01:54 | |
I just have to do a proclamation for small businesses. | 00:02:02 | |
Where is it? | 00:02:06 | |
Mr. Cynical. | 00:02:22 | |
And my talking. | 00:02:26 | |
All right, this is for small businesses. We do this every year. Whereas the government, the city of Socorro, celebrates our local | 00:02:29 | |
small businesses and the contribution that make to our local economy and community. Whereas according to the United States Small | 00:02:36 | |
Business Administration, there are 34.7 million small businesses. Small businesses represent 99.7 of firms with paid employees. | 00:02:42 | |
Small businesses are responsible for 61.1. | 00:02:48 | |
Net new jobs created since 1995 and small businesses employed 45.9%. | 00:02:55 | |
Of the employees in the private sector. | 00:03:02 | |
WHEREAS, 68 cents of every dollar spent at a small business in the US stays in the local community and every dollar spent at a | 00:03:04 | |
small business creates an additional $0.48 in local businesses. WHEREAS, 59% of US consumers aware of Small Business Saturday | 00:03:12 | |
shopped at 48 at a small independently owned retailer or restaurant Small businesses Saturday 2023. And WHEREAS Sequoia New Mexico | 00:03:19 | |
supports our local businesses that create jobs. | 00:03:27 | |
Boost our local economy and preserve our communities. Whereas advocacy groups as well as public and private organizations across | 00:03:35 | |
the country have endorsed the Saturday after Thanksgiving as Small Business Saturday. Now, therefore, I rather ask for Mayor of | 00:03:42 | |
the City of Sigourney, New Mexico do hereby proclaim November 30th, 2024 as Small Business Saturday and urge the residents of our | 00:03:49 | |
community and communities across the country to support small businesses. | 00:03:56 | |
And Merchants on Small Business Saturday, celebrating its 15th year in 2024 and shop small throughout the year. | 00:04:04 | |
Hey, we have on the agenda. | 00:04:17 | |
The home occupation proposal Real LLC Mr. Tom Della Hunty Tom, you want to come up and. | 00:04:20 | |
Hello Mayor and council happy. | 00:04:36 | |
Election Day, this is Katie Cravens. She was a national she's a consultant for the cannabis business, does national seminars and | 00:04:39 | |
has lots of information for whatever the council might be looking at for policy. | 00:04:46 | |
Oh yeah, this is Katie Craven. She is. She does national seminars, but but for information for the council about anything about | 00:04:56 | |
cannabis growing in the city limits with a license. | 00:05:02 | |
This girl would certainly know. We know that Tom had originally requested this time and so we just wanted to respect it and show | 00:05:10 | |
up. We have now started working together. So I'm founder and CEO at buildmysop.com and we help operators navigate through the | 00:05:18 | |
Muddy Waters of compliance, also making sure that we are focusing on. | 00:05:25 | |
Employee safety, public safety as well as environmental safety. | 00:05:34 | |
If you brought up the taxes, did you want me to bring up? | 00:05:39 | |
Yeah, I just there was a little bit of confusion what the taxes are based how they work when you grow in the city I believe. OK, | 00:05:42 | |
great. So yeah, I'm here just to provide information. I've worked in every position from janitor to a top director at a large | 00:05:48 | |
national branded company that was a celebrity brand and I built, build my SOP out of and workforce training for the cannabis | 00:05:55 | |
industry. We just conducted A2 and 1/2 hour. | 00:06:01 | |
Notice of corrective action training for all operators. | 00:06:08 | |
And now we're going to roll out some workforce training because we simply need it. So thank you so much for your time today. And | 00:06:11 | |
is there anything I can say or any questions I can answer? But tell me, tell me a little more about the tax. | 00:06:18 | |
How does the city get that tax and when is that tax? | 00:06:25 | |
Sent from Santa Fe to the city that I don't know, I know is the business owner that I have to report that monthly or quarterly, | 00:06:31 | |
right. And so that's reported and paid by the business owner. I have to, I have to invoice my client, right? The vendor is | 00:06:37 | |
purchasing, yeah. | 00:06:43 | |
But you made a comment that the state taxes, how does the tax get returned to the city for its benefit? It's it's supposed to, | 00:06:50 | |
it's supposed to get returned. That way I can do a little more work at like and, and research exactly how much has been given | 00:06:56 | |
because that's all public record. And so I can absolutely give you a direct answer just to let you know, and you should do your | 00:07:03 | |
research too. We're getting it very infrequently and it comes in a lump sum and doesn't tell us exactly. | 00:07:09 | |
How much business is being done like every other business in town? | 00:07:16 | |
Comes very intermittently. I don't know Ruby. | 00:07:20 | |
So you got when's your last disbursement on cannabis? | 00:07:27 | |
Just sporadically. So there's no accounting for how the cannabis business is doing in Socorro on a monthly basis. So if you do | 00:07:34 | |
talk to the state, tell them about that. I'm absolutely going to do my research. And the thing about Mr. Della Gente. | 00:07:42 | |
We're not trying to stop business occurring in town where this has to do with the home permit for a cannabis building, a business | 00:07:50 | |
in a home and to have a retail business in a home. | 00:07:57 | |
Permit type setting and I think that is what the council has to wrestle with. | 00:08:06 | |
That's the problem. I believe Tom has made a pivot in his business plan and I'm sorry, I thought that that was that was had | 00:08:13 | |
already been discussed. So I apologize about that. So he's made a pivot and and purchased a facility that is zoned commercially | 00:08:18 | |
and that we are excited to talk to you guys about and what we want to do with that and really focusing on the community probably | 00:08:24 | |
be another conversation. | 00:08:30 | |
Absolutely, but but we're proud of you doing that. But as you know, Belen is actually kept how many cannabis businesses and we | 00:08:36 | |
haven't done that in this city. So if it's appropriate to have your business somewhere else, that's appropriate. That's great. So | 00:08:42 | |
if you are you're so you're rescinding your request for a home permit, yes, great. That makes it easier for us. All right, thank | 00:08:49 | |
you guys so much for your time. I appreciate you coming. Thank you. | 00:08:55 | |
Christy, that's. | 00:09:06 | |
One thing off your list of stressful things to do. | 00:09:08 | |
Yeah, but I'm just saying we want to officially say that he withdrew it. I just want to put that in the minutes because we don't | 00:09:19 | |
want to say that this was lost in the iCloud. Mr. just to be clear, so the cannabis would be grown on the property but sold at a | 00:09:26 | |
commercial location. Is that it sounds like what's going to happen, but the but the basic is. | 00:09:33 | |
That he is rescinding his application for a home permit. Yes, Sir. I just want to put that in a minute. | 00:09:40 | |
And now we have the one that everybody is here for. We have the country living residential care. And before I start on that, I'm | 00:09:48 | |
going to have Christy give me a synopsis of what happened in planning and zoning and perhaps you can just read the last part of | 00:09:55 | |
the minutes that will answer the question as to what happened there. | 00:10:02 | |
OK. | 00:10:11 | |
Hello mayor and councillors. | 00:10:13 | |
I did leave, I did e-mail you all the information I had and I also left a packet on your desks. So this was heard on October 16th. | 00:10:17 | |
I do have draft minutes drafted up for Debbie Demos Special Use Permit 1495 furniture. There was a heavy conversation in regards | 00:10:27 | |
to her business plan of putting an RV park slash mobile Home Park both. | 00:10:37 | |
Special use permit. | 00:10:46 | |
On the property. | 00:10:49 | |
I in my draft minutes, I do show that. | 00:10:53 | |
Commissioner Anaya stated that they have to vote and send it to council. Commissioner Scornia made a motion to send it to council, | 00:10:59 | |
seconded by Commissioner Saavedra. That motion was passed unanimously. Unfortunately, the planning zoning did not make a decision. | 00:11:05 | |
I I should say a recommendation because they only make a recommendation and then it gets sent to council. So they made a motion to | 00:11:12 | |
send it to council. | 00:11:18 | |
Without a recommendation. So just to summarize. | 00:11:25 | |
There was a planning and zoning meeting, yes, on the item and the item in question was an RV park at the assisted living facility, | 00:11:29 | |
the 13 acres. And after hearing pros and cons from the neighbors and the people are doing the business, they did not make any | 00:11:37 | |
recommendation to pass or fail that request. | 00:11:45 | |
Right, Commissioner Anaya stated that they have to vote to send it to council because when it is something that has a lot of. | 00:11:54 | |
Moving parts such as the special use permit. They did not make a recommendation. | 00:12:04 | |
Exactly. So they voted unanimously to send it to council, but they did not send it with a recommendation. | 00:12:12 | |
I guess they could have sent it to New York City if they wanted to, but they sent it to council. OK, so so it's basically. | 00:12:21 | |
It was basically they just didn't want to make a decision on it because of the complexities of the issue. | 00:12:30 | |
Council, Council always, No matter what their recommendation is, the council always has the last vote anyway. | 00:12:39 | |
So I will ask the people asking for this. | 00:12:46 | |
Change in what do they call this special use permit if you have some representative that wants to come up and make a statement | 00:12:52 | |
about what it is that you're asking? | 00:12:57 | |
Thank you for the opportunity. | 00:13:09 | |
First of all, can you introduce yourself and everyone? | 00:13:11 | |
I'm Debbie Dumas. I am the current owner and plan to be the. | 00:13:18 | |
And then we pull up, you pull up the microphone a little bit. | 00:13:23 | |
Of country living, residential care, this is Laura Tucker. And just to give a little background first of all, I feel. | 00:13:26 | |
Like maybe I have misrepresented what I've been telling people because my. | 00:13:35 | |
Understanding of the meeting was that it would come before planning and zoning and be approved or disapproved and from their go to | 00:13:43 | |
City Council. So I've been going to all these people sitting here telling them that this was approved at City Council at planning | 00:13:50 | |
and zoning. | 00:13:56 | |
I, I feel like right after that I got phone calls from all kinds of people saying that, well, first of all, I'll tell you what we | 00:14:04 | |
were going to do. So I had put my business up for sale thanking we were going to move and it stayed up for sale for a year. | 00:14:12 | |
There's water rights issues pending and at the end of July the contract ended and we decided to close the business and Laura had | 00:14:22 | |
come to me because she needed rental property and asked if we'd want to rent it. | 00:14:29 | |
Couple days later she called me and said what would it take to keep the facility open and I said financing, we're not making it on | 00:14:37 | |
this. So she said I have an investor that would be willing to up some money for you and to come up with some ideas which we have | 00:14:46 | |
presented before the RV park as well as. | 00:14:54 | |
Possibly something in the back. At that point we had we received, we came to the City Council meeting, we met with some of the | 00:15:03 | |
neighbors which are here today. | 00:15:08 | |
Who asked us not to put an RV park in the back of the facility? We changed our plan at this point to move the RV park up off the | 00:15:14 | |
front edge Rd. and throughout some plans for that. | 00:15:22 | |
It is not a mobile Home Park. It is. | 00:15:31 | |
It's it's an assisted RV park is what we're trying to. | 00:15:36 | |
Create 55 and over newer model RV's long term residents that can't afford to stay in the assisted living house. | 00:15:42 | |
They would at least save us that money of building and what's generated from the assisted RV park with ramps on all of them. | 00:15:53 | |
Nice neat fenced trees. | 00:16:07 | |
Driveways. | 00:16:11 | |
Grass keep the front of the facility with we would like a pond fenced around a walking path. So that's that was our intent. | 00:16:14 | |
And then so that's what brought us to City Council or to the PNL committee. And like I said, we were under I believe all everyone | 00:16:26 | |
that said they are also purchasing an assisted living in the area. It's not this one. | 00:16:34 | |
And it's not, and when I first started talking to Debbie, you know, when she said because I went out there and looked at it and | 00:16:42 | |
it's a it's something that Socorro needs. I mean, we need this kind of thing. Everything would be over 55 event four people who | 00:16:49 | |
need independent living. | 00:16:55 | |
And as they work their way into assisted living, it's country living. That's the whole premise of that. Everything would be kept | 00:17:02 | |
in the green grass with trees and homes that are spaced apart 100 feet. There's never been a mention of that. There's going to be | 00:17:09 | |
mobile homes. It's it's mentioned that the rules and the regulations right now allow there to be mobile homes there. That is not | 00:17:16 | |
the intent of this. | 00:17:23 | |
And and so just some of that that inaccurate Debbie selling, Debbie's moving. Debbie had planned, but a lot of things have | 00:17:31 | |
changed. She's having new great grandkids. | 00:17:35 | |
Things get changed and then guaranteeing that you're going to own it for 20 or 30 years that's we all are getting a little longer | 00:17:40 | |
the tooth. So that's but just the inaccurate information that's but I mean, I just clarified this hearing. | 00:17:50 | |
We do need assisted living, there's no question about it, but this hearing is specifically for a special use permit to change. | 00:18:00 | |
The areas use. | 00:18:10 | |
So I think the pluses and minuses of having assisted living and it's a good idea and what Debbie has done in the past for the home | 00:18:17 | |
has been great. I can personally say that as a physician. | 00:18:23 | |
But but this specifically for for a special use permit and it's still not really stated that it's not a tenorant. You're saying | 00:18:29 | |
they're permanent and you're also saying that these are there are these that are owned and by the people that will move in there | 00:18:39 | |
and live there and then be taking advantage of a facility somewhere else that are assisted means that they have. | 00:18:49 | |
People that come in and do stuff for them. Debbie's Debbie's license today allows her if she could double in space capacity, but | 00:18:59 | |
she doesn't have the space at the current home. But but the idea of having 55 or whatever the number is of. | 00:19:08 | |
As of what size, they're not manufactured houses. I just want to clarify for the council who actually makes the final decision as | 00:19:18 | |
to what it is specifically that's going to be there. | 00:19:25 | |
It's going to be RV's in that space. Yes, Arts wheels, motorized. | 00:19:32 | |
Storage sheds for their material storage, we didn't talk about. We haven't talked about. I'm just saying it needs to be specified. | 00:19:40 | |
Council Chairman, whenever you guys, Mr. Partridge, that would be something similar to like I've heard in the past of spot zoning | 00:19:46 | |
for. | 00:19:51 | |
The wording is special use. It's not and Christie's going like that. It's not spot zoning because the zone is rural residential | 00:20:00 | |
which allows for manufacturer and there's a manufactured mobile homes all over that area. | 00:20:07 | |
But. | 00:20:15 | |
It is not. It's not. It's called special use, which actually was applied for for the assisted living in the house. | 00:20:15 | |
Thank you. | 00:20:25 | |
Mr. Romero no, I was going to say there's some documentation that was put on the table here today that I haven't been through | 00:20:26 | |
that. And then there was other things that was sent out by the city this morning to us. And I'm just trying to clarify and be | 00:20:34 | |
specific about what is being asked so the Council has an idea. Mr. Dean, you mentioned mobile homes. You might want to tell your. | 00:20:42 | |
Relationship to this to begin with, I live in the neighborhood. Yeah, just I just want to put that in the minutes, but the special | 00:20:51 | |
use permit was for a D1 and that's what because you mentioned mobile homes. I don't I don't see it in the special permit that she | 00:20:59 | |
got from 2018. The special permit she has is for D1, which is the subdivision that rural residential. | 00:21:07 | |
Allows for mobile homes that people live in. | 00:21:15 | |
As a residence and it lasts for that. And if they want it on their 14 acres to put in half acre lots that they put, that's allowed | 00:21:21 | |
for. But this is a different situation and that's what I'm trying to say. It's a different situation. We'd really rather not have. | 00:21:29 | |
We'd rather have something that we control as far as how it looks. | 00:21:37 | |
Maintenance. | 00:21:47 | |
You know consistency right idea yes, the the facility is licensed. We could take 15 if we have the room it the whole preface of | 00:21:48 | |
this was to generate the income to do the addition right. That's from your side. But the question is, is a is a special use? | 00:21:58 | |
That people who actually bought in that area as rural residential are having to have their say as to whether they feel that | 00:22:09 | |
that's. | 00:22:15 | |
The important thing, yeah, The important thing is that it's not in and out day and day and night, you know, rent for one night. | 00:22:23 | |
It's meant to be. | 00:22:27 | |
For assisted living will provide the services nursing care, go get their medicine, go get their groceries for them. | 00:22:34 | |
Things like that. | 00:22:43 | |
So also, is there a plan yet that shows, like, what kind of lighting, what kind of impact is it going to have on the neighbors who | 00:22:45 | |
live right next door outside their window? I mean, I'm going to say, you know, just ask, is the lighting low to the ground? Is | 00:22:52 | |
there going to be a big giant spotlight? We haven't invested in that kind of detail because we don't know what we're getting. | 00:22:59 | |
Right, right. Putting the cart before the horse. | 00:23:06 | |
But. | 00:23:14 | |
Would it make a difference like the tiny homes, would that be more, you know? | 00:23:16 | |
Well, again. | 00:23:25 | |
I hate to start spreading out. I'm just specifically saying what this hearing is for and it's for. | 00:23:27 | |
Special use and I understand it says I'm just reading what you have applied for and it says RV park. | 00:23:38 | |
Now your explanation about it being a permanent setting, people coming in assisted housing, then the question would be. | 00:23:50 | |
Whether you would come again with planning and zoning after this was approved or not and then show what Councillor Dean is asking | 00:23:58 | |
for as to how would you get a permit to to put that in, whether there would be things that the neighbors then would be. | 00:24:06 | |
Well, I don't know. I'm just saying after the horse is out of the barn already, which means doing without having specifics, I | 00:24:15 | |
think it would be difficult. Whether it would sway them or not, I'm not sure. | 00:24:21 | |
Saying that, that those are the kind of the unspoken pieces of this, this puzzle. But why don't we give the opposition a chance to | 00:24:28 | |
see what they feel about? Thank you for coming. Who's going to speak for the opposition? | 00:24:36 | |
I'll try and make this very easy for you guys, who you are and where you live. My name is Mike Timmons. I moved to Socorro in 2004 | 00:24:52 | |
when I was hired at New Mexico Tech in 2005. I'm sorry, I just want to have what your standing is to be a oh, my standing is I'm | 00:24:59 | |
in the standing on Avenida Adelaida, which is next door to. | 00:25:06 | |
Yeah, so. | 00:25:14 | |
Let's just step back for a moment. I would ask the petitioners, is this what was part of the application package sent to planning | 00:25:17 | |
and zoning this image? | 00:25:21 | |
Can't clarify. Once it goes to planning and zoning and it has there's restrictions on just to say the question is no, this is not | 00:25:27 | |
part of the application. | 00:25:32 | |
You can set up here and talk if you guys want. Well, I'm making the point. This is not part of the original application. I'll move | 00:25:40 | |
on from that point so that it made a difference. Then since you brought it up, I would like to enter into the record so this is | 00:25:46 | |
captured for posterity and any future actions a petition. | 00:25:52 | |
From the neighborhood in opposition to this and full comments that I'm going to deliver today if you'll allow me the time. And I | 00:25:59 | |
don't know if I need to give this to you guys. | 00:26:04 | |
So that petition includes homeowners and occupants from Avenida Adelaide N Frontage Rd. Farrell Drive. There's quite a few names | 00:26:18 | |
on that list, all in opposition to this particular RV park at 1495 Frontage Rd. I also want to state for the record that changing | 00:26:26 | |
the time of this meeting to noon, all the appearances of trying to suppress. | 00:26:34 | |
Opposition to this project. I think you would have gotten more opposition at 6:00. I know at least three people. | 00:26:43 | |
I wanted to be here. Well, we'll, we'll let you decide when we have the meetings from now on. | 00:26:49 | |
I'm stating that for the record, Well, for the record, telling you that you can make the appointments for us. | 00:26:55 | |
My house is situated 10s of feet from my own backyard back fence directly adjacent to the Demos property. The current facility was | 00:27:01 | |
built on a special use permit to renovate a ranch house into a lake care facility. There was little protest to this zoning | 00:27:07 | |
variance because the facility specifications. | 00:27:14 | |
We're limited to the homes footprint. The assurances were made at the rest that the rest of the property would remain | 00:27:21 | |
agricultural. In fact, in testimony before planning and zoning on June 7th, 2018, Mr. Moss was asked by Christina Carnegie, who's | 00:27:28 | |
in the audience here. Is there any expansions planned for the property? | 00:27:36 | |
I Mr. Moss did respond. She would like to expand the facility to a 15 beds facility. Maybe something that this neighborhood maybe | 00:27:44 | |
actually get behind. | 00:27:50 | |
She also stated that she would like to put a resting area in the front with a pond that's clearly still in the plans. | 00:27:57 | |
And now we know. | 00:28:05 | |
Let's see. And then the last bit of testimony provided in that particular meeting, there was promises made that the backfield | 00:28:08 | |
would remain remain agricultural. So that was what was presented in 2018. | 00:28:15 | |
In 2020, Mr. Moss returned to PNZ requesting another special use permit to develop a mobile RV park on the back lot of the | 00:28:23 | |
property within feet of my property. That application was withdrawn as they were informed by the traffic study of the frontage Rd. | 00:28:30 | |
would likely be required. The project seemed to be self showed at that point. | 00:28:38 | |
So I did attend the October, the latest, October 16th PNZ meeting to express my opposition to the development. The last fix of the | 00:28:45 | |
development project have changed. The mobile RV park remains a central element of the proposed project. PNZ inexplicably approved | 00:28:53 | |
the proposed development despite multiple protesters attending. Only three of the five Commission members were president. I spoke | 00:29:00 | |
to Chairman Anaya. He told me. | 00:29:08 | |
From the votes, I'm not sure the record is correct. I do not have minutes from that meeting to confirm, but I would be confirming | 00:29:16 | |
that there was a quorum attained, certified letters went to all the homeowners as required, and votes were recorded accurately. | 00:29:22 | |
Now you, the council, are considering a recommendation. What I thought was a recommendation from PNC. I'm just hearing now that | 00:29:28 | |
also that it was just. | 00:29:34 | |
A pass the buck exercise. I will remind the Council that the special use permit is required for specific land use. | 00:29:41 | |
That is not permitted by right within the zone. Special use permits are required by ordinance to meet following conditions under | 00:29:50 | |
chapter 250, Article 5, section 255.5. In this section, the city has certain requirements that must be followed. Special use | 00:29:59 | |
permits shall not be granted in such cases where they were adversely affected, joining property values or endanger public safety. | 00:30:08 | |
Special use permits shall not be granted in such cases. | 00:30:17 | |
Where the use is or will become detrimental to the character of the zone wherein it it is located. | 00:30:21 | |
With any special use submission, the applicant is required to document the following. There should be a comprehensive statement | 00:30:28 | |
including each application included with each application, detailing the reason for the project, purpose and use of the property, | 00:30:34 | |
all the improvements to be made, a site plan that has to include location of existing structures including dimensions, setbacks, | 00:30:40 | |
all that. | 00:30:47 | |
Location of treatment of open spaces, landscaping, Plan a schedule, lighting, signage. | 00:30:54 | |
A drainage plan, site plan, landscaping plan, a grading plan shall be required for all special use developments. | 00:31:01 | |
None of this information is included in the special use application. I will add that there is no information regarding power | 00:31:09 | |
upgrades required, sewer enhancements, needed traffic studies, or any details needed to evaluate the merits of this proposal. | 00:31:15 | |
Lastly, the Sydney ordinance also stipulate that special uses shall not be considered a zoning district change. So my question is | 00:31:22 | |
pretty simple. | 00:31:28 | |
For the council given the restrictions stipulated and required by city ordinance. | 00:31:35 | |
How can a special use permit be used to permanently change the zoning for neighborhood? This application will permanently change | 00:31:40 | |
the zoning conditions in this part of this city and will absolutely impact the property values of adjacent homeowners. | 00:31:47 | |
So all future homeowners will have to deal with whatever this commercial operation ends up being. | 00:31:56 | |
The applicants have not met the minimum requirements of a special use permit application. They have not requested a renewal | 00:32:03 | |
special use permit for the current facility, which I understand is required to be renewed on A5 year basis or so. | 00:32:09 | |
That's consistent with the temporary nature of the zoning statuses. This commercial venture with non Socorro investors will have a | 00:32:18 | |
singular purpose and this is hitting me acutely. It is to extract every cent of value out of that property and all the adjacent | 00:32:24 | |
properties to it. | 00:32:30 | |
And that's to my personal to my knowledge, no formal traffic study has been completed or supplied with the application. | 00:32:39 | |
Regrettably, I understand our our neighbors are moving to Texas. They will not be here to manage this property. | 00:32:48 | |
So I stand in opposition to the special use application. I'm accompanied by others in our neighborhood, some of these, everyone | 00:32:57 | |
here. If you want to raise your hand and indicate your opposition, you're welcome to do so for the council. So I, I believe I've | 00:33:04 | |
provided this council with all the information needed to just deny the special use permit application. This is a test of your | 00:33:10 | |
leadership and I know it's not a welcome one. | 00:33:17 | |
Do you support the people who are living here in Socorro? | 00:33:24 | |
Were another family that doesn't live in Socorro has no plans to reside in Socorro. My whole world is ranked here. I've raised my | 00:33:28 | |
two kids here. This is the only home they have known and I will continue to fight this proposed development with every legal means | 00:33:36 | |
available to me. I can only trust that this council will just adhere to the ordinance they have. Thank you. | 00:33:43 | |
You won't understand for any questioning at all. | 00:33:53 | |
Since you took the time to come at noon, yeah. | 00:33:57 | |
You know, 6:00 might have been awkward with the election going on and that's the reason we changed the 12. But I guess Christy, | 00:34:00 | |
his comment about a quorum, I just want to get the cities liability out of this before we get sued. Was there a quorum? | 00:34:08 | |
And did Mr. Anaya abstain? | 00:34:17 | |
And. | 00:34:20 | |
Well, I'm hearsay, hearsay. I'm just saying what's in the minutes and and what's the other part which? | 00:34:23 | |
And you, you, you, you did communicate to all the neighbors, all your, all your intent. | 00:34:31 | |
Excuse me, I'm just trying to clarify if you'd give me a chance. Listen, I apologize. Go ahead. Clarify the city's role in having | 00:34:41 | |
some negligence if that's the case. Yes, Sir. So. So all those things that he mentioned. | 00:34:49 | |
Right, OK. | 00:35:04 | |
OK, well just just to make sure we document that and make sure that you get those minutes signed by the by the Chairman. Doctor | 00:35:09 | |
Johnson, let me finish and I will be happy to listen to your hand. | 00:35:14 | |
OK. | 00:35:23 | |
Yes, Miss George. | 00:35:24 | |
This was coming about. | 00:35:27 | |
And just across the Florida lateral from? | 00:35:37 | |
For this development, so, and I think I mean it's just a recommendation, but I think and perhaps in rural residential zoning 100 | 00:35:44 | |
feet of distance to notify a a significant land owner of a of a peak of a zoning change or a special use permit is a little | 00:35:53 | |
narrow. I think I still fall within the 100 feet. I'm not going to change the ordinance here. | 00:36:03 | |
We can do that another time, but we appreciate your comment and make sure that we're sure. Well, just she's made a comment and | 00:36:13 | |
obviously we did not include her with what the county said and we'll make sure it's noted and but we didn't, you know, there's a | 00:36:19 | |
percentage. But anyway, Mr. Partridge, you have a question. No more of a comment. No, just comment to to Mr. Romero. That sounds | 00:36:25 | |
like the entire planning and zoning Epstein is all I was saying is that they just passed it to us. I thought that they were a | 00:36:31 | |
buffer. | 00:36:37 | |
They should know these ordinances and what is allowable in these areas and make it render a decision. I get it's going to come to | 00:36:44 | |
us either way. It sounds like there was no decision at all and they just pushed it to us. That's all I was saying. I apologize. I | 00:36:50 | |
mean administratively and I don't have a vote and it appears we may need further time to discuss this, but administratively if you | 00:36:56 | |
have. | 00:37:02 | |
A special use permit. | 00:37:09 | |
Asked for and the neighbors. | 00:37:13 | |
Present a petition that they feel is not appropriate for their area. This a certain zone. You have to listen to the petition. I | 00:37:14 | |
mean you have to look and see what the neighbors are saying about what they bought and what is being changed, even as nebulous as | 00:37:23 | |
it is. So logically, if you go by just looking at. | 00:37:31 | |
The role of planning and zoning and and getting. | 00:37:40 | |
The people who owned houses already there and if this was there before they bought the house, that would be a different story. But | 00:37:45 | |
this is a, this is a special use and that's something that I think the council needs to look at. I, I appreciate people coming to | 00:37:52 | |
town whether they live here or not. I know, I know, I don't like to make that kind of a statement that people that are here should | 00:37:59 | |
be treated differently than the people that are coming in and investing in our community. | 00:38:05 | |
I'm I certainly appreciate people looking at our community to invest in. | 00:38:13 | |
And and whether you're moving away or not is to get the best value for the property that you've paid for. But again. | 00:38:17 | |
I leave it up to the council if they want to make a decision today. Mr. Fleming or or we can ask her legal because there appears | 00:38:25 | |
to be a lot of Britons about legal matters that coming to the City Council being sued. Maybe we should look at it a little more | 00:38:33 | |
specifically. Mr. Mayor. First of all, Christy, how many mailings went out that were presented to you by the county? | 00:38:40 | |
I have 9 listings, 99. I wonder why on this petition that we were just given we have 21. | 00:38:57 | |
I don't know. That didn't come through P&Z. So was this not presented to PNC? No, I know, but. | 00:39:07 | |
This is my family, but we have to authenticate all these. I think that's why we may have to look at this. We'll kick the can down | 00:39:16 | |
the road, but we'll have to look at this little closer. But Miss Dean, I was just curious about the lodgers tax. I don't I don't | 00:39:24 | |
remember the the what the rules are on that we received largest tax from these RV's or because they're long term. | 00:39:32 | |
If they will reside in one place for more than a month, there's no logic. | 00:39:40 | |
You want to tax them also. | 00:39:46 | |
Still again. | 00:39:51 | |
Based on all the conversations that I have with Mr. Mr. Demas, Mr. Timmons and, and going through and looking at and refreshing | 00:39:54 | |
myself on on coding and zones and ordinances and all that. I think it brings to light some stuff that I think the council as a | 00:40:01 | |
whole used to needs to address. As far as the process throughout the discussions I was talking about. I know there's a checklist, | 00:40:08 | |
I've seen checklist before on when they come to City Council and they, they, there's a list of stuff that needs to be. | 00:40:15 | |
And I was trying to find it, come find it. And the whole time I was kind of right in front of my eyes with Mr. Delaney's | 00:40:23 | |
application and all those questions are asked. | 00:40:28 | |
Will any sign on property related to the business have over what however many feed? Is your business activity related to the | 00:40:36 | |
healthcare physical? Will there be external outside evidence of the business activities such as commercial vehicle storage, noise, | 00:40:42 | |
dust, odors, noxious fumes and so on. And I think that I mean this this is for the home occupation permit, but I think this a | 00:40:48 | |
checklist like this would have been good. | 00:40:54 | |
For us as a council to to be able to cross reference with the testimonies from from the petitioners and and the people in | 00:41:01 | |
opposition because there are a lot of good points that are being made or a lot of good questions that that that are asked on these | 00:41:10 | |
applications that the petitioner can either approve or disprove also to in discussion with Mr. and Missus Demos and. | 00:41:18 | |
The concern I've had throughout my time as a council is, excuse me, when we get these, what does it do for the future? And, and I | 00:41:27 | |
think my biggest concern with something like this is, I mean, I have no doubt that Mister and Mrs. Demos would have a beautiful | 00:41:33 | |
facility and they would do everything that they would say. | 00:41:39 | |
But what concerns me is that if we were to approve a special use for this rural residential area. | 00:41:46 | |
I feel that. For example, my sister has a house on Duggan Plain and she has property. I mean, who's to say if she wants to make | 00:41:54 | |
some extra cash or entice the value of her land by putting an RV park there? She comes to the counselor planning and zoning and | 00:42:00 | |
says the same thing. You know, it's going to be nice. We're going to, we're going to, it's going to be all this other sea moves | 00:42:06 | |
and another person comes in and we have no guarantee that that's going to be fulfilled. | 00:42:12 | |
I mean, it's a mobile home. I mean, it's a mobile Home Park, not an RV park. But I mean, I wasn't obviously here when it happened, | 00:42:19 | |
but Shady Nook, for example. | 00:42:23 | |
When that was approved or, or allowed to happen, how did that go down? And, and now you look, they could have said the same thing | 00:42:27 | |
too. This is going to be, we're going to put trees, it's going to be a nice, we're going to take care of it and so on and so | 00:42:35 | |
forth. Ownership hands or the ownership changes hands and in my opinion, it's detrimental to the neighborhood. | 00:42:42 | |
And for everybody else that has their properties in rural residential, what's that? What signal does that stand to them? I mean | 00:42:52 | |
all the whole farm can have the opportunity now. On what grounds would we have? | 00:42:57 | |
To deny them based on if they were to come and present a same application and the same arguments that this is that's being | 00:43:03 | |
presented today, we really wouldn't have any grounds in my opinion to denial. So I firmly agree that we have a need and Mr. Mrs. | 00:43:10 | |
Demas are stepping up to the plate to try to, to try to to address that need and it's appreciated. But I think that us as a | 00:43:17 | |
council, in my opinion. | 00:43:23 | |
Need to be a little bit more strategic on how. | 00:43:31 | |
And and and addressing all the issues that could come about on on the application and then we can go from there. | 00:44:04 | |
So that's. | 00:44:13 | |
That that's, that's where, that's that's where I stand on this much. | 00:44:15 | |
Are there? | 00:44:23 | |
I'm Debbie Demos with Country Living. Are there any who holds people to the ordinances like shady whatever, wagon wheel, Willis | 00:44:25 | |
trailer park, you know, I know it's going to look better than any of that, but just asking, are there city ordinances or who who? | 00:44:35 | |
Takes care of that stuff. | 00:44:47 | |
We lose responsibility. We have. I do. Is Chris here? | 00:44:49 | |
There's my zoning, my code enforcement, and he's got his hands full. Mr. Mayor, just on that, sorry. So, and I don't have the | 00:44:55 | |
exact words, but from what I read on there that if a specially used permit is approved, it it can be revoked if, and I don't know | 00:45:01 | |
the exact wording on it, but it can be revoked if the terms and conditions, some of the terms and conditions aren't being met at | 00:45:07 | |
that time. | 00:45:13 | |
That is correct. | 00:45:21 | |
Well, you know the. | 00:45:24 | |
Again, there's checklists and there's checklists and there's plans that you're going to show, but it all boils down to it being a | 00:45:27 | |
special use permit and the special use permit again administratively and also is the one who votes. | 00:45:37 | |
Is something that the neighbors really have, in my opinion, have a four or 50% effect on whether you have a checklist that you did | 00:45:48 | |
everything there. The neighbors feel that they're not being treated properly by the special use permit. And so same thing with the | 00:45:55 | |
home business. If somebody wants to put a home business next door to somebody's house and the neighbors say, you know, this is not | 00:46:03 | |
going to work out, I think we have to listen to the people who have. | 00:46:10 | |
Actually bought and paid money for real estate there. I appreciate that and I agree with you. But also we should have been given | 00:46:17 | |
the list so we could present that and we could do our due diligence, which we thought we were doing. | 00:46:25 | |
If we develop a list for you and you give a nicer picture of this. | 00:46:34 | |
Will that be something that this petition and these the people are going to say, yeah, that's great. I want 50 RV's right next. So | 00:46:42 | |
so that that's what I'm getting with just boil it down to the basics is the question of neighbors saying that we don't want this | 00:46:48 | |
in our rural. | 00:46:55 | |
My my name is Chet de Maison. | 00:47:03 | |
Part owner of this thing, but we in Mr. Timmons right? We we did visit with him. We went to their house and had dinner on | 00:47:05 | |
previously and this is I think is in 20/20/20. I don't remember the actual date but he he did not want it in the back. So we said | 00:47:12 | |
okay, what if we move it to the front? | 00:47:20 | |
He didn't have a problem with that. | 00:47:28 | |
That's why we. | 00:47:31 | |
Are coming to them with this right now beautiful but you know I'm just saying that this is not going to be. | 00:47:33 | |
With them seeing all this and trying to present it to them again, personally I think we should hear but at this point it doesn't | 00:47:40 | |
appear that the whole picture is together like. | 00:47:45 | |
Damien, we've got somebody sitting here on the phone. | 00:47:53 | |
Have you got a question? Yes, Mr. Mayor, this is Daniel Compo. I have a question. I'm not sure if they got answered earlier. We | 00:47:57 | |
lost electricity again and my phone got dropped but got back on. But I understand that there is some type of verbiage where | 00:48:05 | |
special use permits have to be reviewed or else applied for again every five years. And maybe not in this exact situation, but | 00:48:12 | |
this, so I understand it more, so I'm not ignorant towards it. | 00:48:19 | |
Every five years that a. | 00:48:27 | |
Especially use permit as well. Then is it the council or the PNZ or, or who is it that actually sees it that they're still doing | 00:48:29 | |
business as they as they put in for the special. That way all sides understand and know that that it that they're still following | 00:48:38 | |
what they what they applied for in the 1st place. Was that answered before? I'm just not sure. | 00:48:47 | |
Not not directly, but I think it's up to the planning and zoning. | 00:48:56 | |
Administrator and the city administrator and the mayor to make sure that if we have these coming up every five years that that we | 00:49:01 | |
could review what they said they were going to do and what they are actually doing. But again, that's farther down the road than | 00:49:07 | |
somebody investing hundreds of thousands of dollars and doing something and then it's falling apart. And then us telling them, | 00:49:12 | |
well, they got to clean it up or do something. You know, that that's that's, that's a decision that probably should never have | 00:49:18 | |
been made. | 00:49:24 | |
But again. | 00:49:29 | |
It's up to the council as to how they decide what the specifics are, as to what satisfies them to make this into a special use and | 00:49:30 | |
we can give them these check boxes, We can save review this every five years. The question is, in my opinion, the way the the | 00:49:37 | |
petition is and the people that are here, that feeling is not going to change. And I just don't know whether that's acceptable to | 00:49:44 | |
them or not. But we can, we can certainly. | 00:49:50 | |
Postpone this hearing give you a chance to have further discussions with them. | 00:49:58 | |
And not make a decision or turn it down or turn it up. That's something up to the council. Mr. Mayor, on, on that note, it is in | 00:50:04 | |
there that says that if we do vote on this today and we do deny it, they can't come back for another six months. So we can | 00:50:11 | |
postpone it whatever the council would like. But again, I just, I'm just saying the things that are on the table, that there's no | 00:50:17 | |
hidden agenda. It's just the way things are. And I, I, are you taking my picture? | 00:50:23 | |
We can make that available to you while you're at it, but you're welcome to come closer if you want to look better that way. | 00:50:31 | |
But go ahead. | 00:50:37 | |
We aren't moving the goal posts on this application. According to our bylaws, postponement has to be taken up at the next City | 00:50:41 | |
Council meeting. | 00:50:46 | |
Change between now and 2nd. Withdrawing that would be the easiest thing to do and not have that six month period. Mr. Mayor, is | 00:50:53 | |
it? Is it? Is it in our authority to send it back to PNC and then have them do a formal vote on recommending or denying? | 00:51:02 | |
Well, don't bring that. | 00:51:18 | |
We have a you're saying we don't have a constituted community right now. I don't think you need to say anything else. Yeah, that's | 00:51:20 | |
a different thing. But again, it could be you could withdraw the application and that would not apply for six months. If you would | 00:51:26 | |
rule the application and bring it back up again, we could. | 00:51:32 | |
Postpone it for another meeting in two weeks, But we have that by bylaw that we can't, we can't just postpone it forever. | 00:51:39 | |
I just want to make sure the condition. | 00:51:47 | |
Achievements if you choose the post Office for two years. | 00:51:50 | |
Mr. Mayor, just to answer your question, they would not so, but if it's sent back to P&Z, the the nature of the application can be | 00:51:55 | |
changed. | 00:51:59 | |
But again. | 00:52:06 | |
It would behoove us to allow them to present further information, not go ahead and invest any more money because we're not saying | 00:52:11 | |
that you should or shouldn't, is to recommend that you withdraw it and go back to the Planning board and go back to the planning | 00:52:19 | |
and zoning. That would be my advice. If we do postpone it, we have two weeks. | 00:52:28 | |
To wrestle with this if you'd like. | 00:52:38 | |
Or you can vote on it now instrument. Sorry. And there was also discussion about, you know, they were saying that meetings were | 00:52:40 | |
being held with the neighbors and all that other stuff. In my opinion, I think that the planning and zoning meetings should be the | 00:52:45 | |
time or that way everything is on record and there's no he said this, they said that and they're meeting behind their backs and | 00:52:51 | |
they're spreading the rumors and everything else like that as well. But I think that that's the perfect opportunity where there's | 00:52:56 | |
no I mean you have. | 00:53:01 | |
You have free will to. | 00:53:07 | |
Present both arguments for and against and everything is on record. So when we do. | 00:53:09 | |
I understand that, but I'm yes, but then so that way I'm that way the public knows too. So that way whenever it's the people that | 00:53:16 | |
weren't there, they know that when we get when we get our when we get the application from the planning and zoning, we have an | 00:53:21 | |
accurate description of the comments that were made and everything the arguments that were made within the minutes of the | 00:53:26 | |
application from the planning and zoning. | 00:53:31 | |
We do have that new Michael in our packet. | 00:53:37 | |
This Doctor Johnson. | 00:53:43 | |
Just one second. Just. | 00:53:49 | |
Hi, hello to the council and I appreciate you hearing us out. I just wanted to make the council aware that in the in the documents | 00:53:57 | |
that I got when I went to see Christy that this is not simply an RV park. There are there are additional paper, there's additional | 00:54:06 | |
paperwork that says as a tentative plan they would they might want to put some. | 00:54:14 | |
Some tiny houses or assisted living housing now in the back residential area and that is a is a tentative plan and I believe the | 00:54:23 | |
discussion was that that was looking at about 5 years out to create this little community and I, I responded in the PNC meeting | 00:54:32 | |
that. | 00:54:40 | |
For them and and it is my understanding from attending that meeting that. | 00:54:49 | |
That three out of four of the PNC members said that they approved it. That was my understanding, but. | 00:54:54 | |
If the minutes don't reflect that, I don't know where the discrepancy is, but. | 00:55:04 | |
Pardon the discrepancy with you because the minutes say they did not make any decision. | 00:55:09 | |
But I have my objection is that this proposal had something that was tentative five years, potentially five years down the road. | 00:55:16 | |
And I said. | 00:55:21 | |
These need to be separated out and I just want you all to be aware that that is part of what was on the what was on the table. I | 00:55:27 | |
didn't know if you listened to the whole meeting by the start of the meeting by specifying what this meeting and this hearing was | 00:55:33 | |
about, I did. | 00:55:38 | |
But I, I felt that that was something that was important for me to say. And it's important for me to tell you that if there are | 00:55:45 | |
tiny houses out there and they're within the code, they can be built. That's housing. | 00:55:51 | |
No matter whether they're tiny or large or mansions, they're housing and they can be built in that rural residential setting. It's | 00:55:58 | |
just you can't have this in the rural residential sitting in my opinion. | 00:56:04 | |
Without approval of Yeah, without the City Council. But tiny homes. | 00:56:13 | |
And you're whatever tiny home means within as a residence can be done. I mean that's that's not against the zoning over there. It | 00:56:19 | |
it can be done. But I but as a question I asked several years ago for my family's property. Mike Chosen told me that you can a | 00:56:27 | |
piece of land can be subdivided. | 00:56:35 | |
Once every year and unless. Unless. | 00:56:44 | |
You know, these are going to be whatever. I mean, we're talking about tiny homes, but if they're going to be individually owned, | 00:56:49 | |
then that is a sub that falls under the subdivision. | 00:56:55 | |
Have to be approved by City Council. You can subsidized up to. | 00:57:03 | |
Christine 4. | 00:57:09 | |
I can't. I can't give you specifically, but you can on your own. Every year you can subdivide X number by doing a subdivision. | 00:57:12 | |
Then you didn't fall under the subdivision requirements 11 division, so you can do that. | 00:57:22 | |
Topic but. | 00:57:30 | |
The concept of them putting in tiny homes or mansions or whatever that's. | 00:57:32 | |
Part of the zoning there, that's just, you know, just the logic. I think we're getting away. I mean, again, I think this is a | 00:57:37 | |
specific special use. The neighbors are against it, unfortunately to me. | 00:57:45 | |
That's a very important part, Debbie. I think we can all agree on that. | 00:57:53 | |
Select. | 00:57:58 | |
Sorry again, this is Debbie Demoss with Country Living and we just want to resend her application at this point. | 00:58:01 | |
We'll just, we'll just do something else. The home is back there. And then they don't have a choice because that's yeah, according | 00:58:09 | |
to a subdivision laws. | 00:58:16 | |
You don't have to qualify. You're resenting the application. Yes. Thank you. Sorry about all the time. No, I mean, that's what we | 00:58:24 | |
have. Commissioner Duggan, is that your party? Is that part of your county? | 00:58:31 | |
Come on down. Did you put any improvements on that road for us? | 00:58:40 | |
You've got two months with me. But Mr. Mayor, Mr. Monet, I'm Glenn Duggan's. I live in limits are for the record, I am a current | 00:58:46 | |
commissioner. I do not represent the Commission in this meeting. I'm a neighbor to demuss. I've known these people. | 00:58:57 | |
I don't want to tell you how many years, but look. | 00:59:08 | |
They're the cleanest, best neighbors I've ever had and if they wanted to do this next to me? | 00:59:13 | |
Why not? And you know what? If I want to control your land? Well, maybe I should have bought it. And what about? | 00:59:18 | |
Neighbors. | 00:59:27 | |
That don't keep their yards up, that are depreciating their land. There's some of the cleanest stuff around it, and I wanna touch | 00:59:29 | |
on that agriculture stuff a little. | 00:59:33 | |
As the city or as development comes around a farm. | 00:59:40 | |
You can love your farm all you want. | 00:59:46 | |
But if you're there, if you have to turn the profit, you can't do it with neighbors all around you because they're going to turn | 00:59:49 | |
you in. The water is going to leak. The tractor is too loud. One, I know, I live your, your wife's, your sisters where they live. | 00:59:58 | |
That's where I grew up. I know I grew up in that neighborhood, you know? | 01:00:07 | |
And I'm tired of the ghetto. | 01:00:19 | |
I really am. I remember when Ford, when General Motors, when everybody was here, John Deere. I know things change, but we need | 01:00:23 | |
good investment. And this looks to me like whether they do the tiny house or whatever, you couldn't ask for better people. And | 01:00:32 | |
Hallelujah that corporations, corporate money comes to Socorro. | 01:00:41 | |
Open my pocket. What the hell? | 01:00:50 | |
What's the matter with that? I mean, we live in poverty. We have an aging community. This is needed. And the beautiful thing of a | 01:00:53 | |
government. I've learned what they give is they can take it. And if you need to adjust something, my goodness, you have a very | 01:01:02 | |
good opportunity here to help the people of Socorro to remain in Socorro and to not go to the nursing home. | 01:01:12 | |
I mean that I don't know. There's no, there's no question that that chili farm is the prettiest chili farm I have ever seen. | 01:01:22 | |
I know I. | 01:01:31 | |
This has to do with ordinances and a city and it has to do with what the neighbors are feeling. And if there is a dirty yard, the | 01:01:37 | |
people who move there bought it next to that dirty yard, you know, and we have zoning ordinances for that. But this is a special | 01:01:47 | |
use and, and this needs to be here in Socorro, but probably not there. But we definitely need assistance. | 01:01:56 | |
And what Debbie did with that farmhouse for people, it was it was a godsend for the family and for the people that were there that | 01:02:05 | |
you took care of. | 01:02:10 | |
If the firm continues through the in the coming years and we nobody ever knows, I hope it does. I hate to see farmland covered up | 01:02:16 | |
but people move in. I I understand you have your legal stuff to go through but I came here to vouch and without a doubt. | 01:02:26 | |
And and and it's needed. | 01:02:37 | |
And I may not like what my neighbors do. Donald, how long have you known Debbie? | 01:02:42 | |
OK, well, see, we got, we got a guy right there that knows we're longer than that. Well, we all know each other, but I that's all | 01:02:51 | |
I can we do know that we're here. It's just and it by the way, if you need some help, let me know. | 01:02:59 | |
I mean the county Commission, because it's in the city, you're in the, we're in the county, we need to eat some of your that you | 01:03:07 | |
guys are putting in the bank, which should be used for the public. | 01:03:12 | |
And you know what? And that's my argument. You better spent within the community advances. | 01:03:21 | |
But really if I can help with public session anymore? | 01:03:31 | |
Thank you, Mr. Douglas. Mr. Fleming. | 01:03:39 | |
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So as of right now, I'm pointing up clarification. The application has been rescinded by the presenters, is | 01:03:45 | |
that correct? | 01:03:51 | |
That is correct. We will go alternate route. | 01:03:58 | |
Mr. Parkman, just offer I I think I echo what Mr. Elgin said and Councillor Augean and Mayor, we do need housing for the elderly, | 01:04:03 | |
the tough position to be in as a counselor. | 01:04:10 | |
I just based upon the application now that it's rescinded, it sounds like even with the notes given, Mr. Timmons, maybe have you | 01:04:19 | |
provided a blueprint for you to do it a different route that is more applicable than the area that the neighbors would be more | 01:04:24 | |
satisfied with? | 01:04:28 | |
I don't think they'll be more satisfied, but maybe it'll fall within the legal boundaries and then it won't mind. That's my | 01:04:34 | |
opinion. | 01:04:38 | |
But maybe it'll fall within the parameters of what's allowable without a special use, and maybe that'll work better for the | 01:04:43 | |
circumstances. | 01:04:47 | |
And obviously, Mr. Romero chatting with all the appeasement that, you know, you were trying to do and things that the neighbors | 01:04:53 | |
were trying to do to take care of their property, there was just a lot of different. | 01:05:01 | |
Stories and information misinformation, misinformation and bad that things are that way if they would invited us to their meeting, | 01:05:10 | |
we could have probably not had a problem in an issue. That's why we come up with this alternate site plan because of but you hate | 01:05:18 | |
to run out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. | 01:05:26 | |
To get. | 01:05:35 | |
Maybe on a, on a, on a permit that is, you know, so now we know what we need to do period. | 01:05:37 | |
Do you have the investors with you, One of them? | 01:05:48 | |
And two, there's, there's three of us. I think that's great. I mean, I, you know, I, I don't have anything against time. Yeah, of | 01:05:53 | |
course, Yeah, of course. And helping the town and I just think. | 01:06:01 | |
Well, I think we appreciate you. Everybody says we are moving away. Well, we are going to move away, but we're still involved in | 01:06:09 | |
this business. So we're not going anywhere. | 01:06:15 | |
Appreciate you. Our house is still here. We're still gonna be taxes here. It's just it's just a different location of. | 01:06:21 | |
Well, thank, thank you and thank you. | 01:06:30 | |
We're doing are we doing a bit award, let's do it again. I make a motion, we approve a bit of word IFB 092424 the Evergreen water | 01:06:42 | |
wastewater collection system expansion. | 01:06:49 | |
So moved and seconded, and as I don't know people at the end of the line, we're going to do the whole system. We got money for it | 01:06:58 | |
and good job with Donald and Ruby and Paul and Lloyd. | 01:07:04 | |
All so all in favor, aye? | 01:07:12 | |
Motion We approve the letter of award for Monsoner's Ave. | 01:07:19 | |
Second moved and seconded. There's another that we had to get extra money for and I think we'll get it past the Interstate | 01:07:23 | |
overpass. Will we or no? | 01:07:27 | |
It's going to be close, Mister man, just to the club maybe. All in favor, aye. Hazard, Mr. again, Motion. We approve the OSHA | 01:07:32 | |
policies and procedures of the Hazard communications and the blood borne Pathogen plan. | 01:07:40 | |
Moved and seconded discussion. All in favor Aye, new business. | 01:07:50 | |
Whole business Mr. Mayor would like to just thank you and your staff and Lloyd for getting the like that whether is that game that | 01:07:56 | |
played ******** Bloomberg I know you think that were ******** boards all done at the city. I didn't even realize they were done I | 01:08:02 | |
had checked on the progress and. | 01:08:09 | |
AD came up and was really happy that it was done. So thanks for the hard work and getting that done. And Lloyd said there's a | 01:08:15 | |
little bit more to do on it just to make it a little nicer. I appreciate that. Thank you. | 01:08:21 | |
On the mayors report, I just want to give you an update on the, I'm sorry, who said Mr. Romero. And also we need to thank whoever | 01:08:28 | |
was in charge for the concrete for that. That was huge from beginning to end. So Senior Center. | 01:08:36 | |
Michael, are you still here? | 01:08:48 | |
Good, good job. No, you guys are great. | 01:08:53 | |
I'm glad you can make the noon meetings though buddy. | 01:08:59 | |
You guys take the two hours to vote later on, OK. | 01:09:03 | |
Sakura Municipal Electric Update I want to give you some information #1 the Public Regulatory Commission slapped the co-ops, not | 01:09:08 | |
just the hand, they slapped some other stuff. And they told the Co-op that they were incompetent, they were frivolous and wasting | 01:09:15 | |
the owner's money and legal issues that were not able to be accomplished. Taking to the Supreme Court and all that. And they're | 01:09:22 | |
going to and they're going to. | 01:09:30 | |
Make sure that they do not charge the consumers $1,000,000 penalty that they're supposed to pay, but they're still considering the | 01:09:38 | |
penalty #2 we have gotten. | 01:09:43 | |
Almost 70%. | 01:09:52 | |
Of our solar and battery storage, paid for by a grant. | 01:09:54 | |
5 megabytes, 5 MW solar facility with A10 MW battery storage. | 01:10:01 | |
We're now looking to put together a resolution for the council, Peter Gonzalez additional job duties as police Lieutenant and | 01:10:11 | |
Gilberto Chavez landfill termination. | 01:10:18 | |
Esther. | 01:10:26 | |
Of the personnel changes as well. | 01:10:29 | |
Again, we've the 2nd and all in favor, aye. We have business registration. We have March Mexican and more transient vendor. You | 01:10:32 | |
know, we've had transient vendors that have, I had one guys, they were coming from California. They set up on Smith's. I know you | 01:10:39 | |
mentioned that to me. There were, there's actually they're set up somewhere else and I happen to catch them on Smith's. They had a | 01:10:46 | |
whole, they had a whole lights and generator and a cooking and we had them moved off. | 01:10:54 | |
Sakura Wellness and Rehabilitation, David Gertz. And that's a skilled nursing facility. | 01:11:01 | |
Neuralta Technology. Mustang, OK Electrical contractor. | 01:11:09 | |
Who approved the business registrations? | 01:11:17 | |
Moved and seconded. All in favor, Aye. And the next meeting, if we have one, will be at 6:00. | 01:11:21 | |
November 19th I will send a personal invitation to Doctor Timmons to come because I think he likes the evening meetings. | 01:11:30 | |
OK, that's it turned. See you guys later. | 01:11:40 |